this is Jocko podcast number 216 with echo Charles and me Jocko willing good evening echo good evening in attack most daring in defense most cunning in endurance most steadfast they performed a feat of arms which will be remembered and recounted as long as the virtues of courage and resolution have the power to move the hearts of men and that right there is Winston Churchill speaking in honor of the British first Airborne Division had on him and he was actually making that statement on September 22nd 1944 in which the battle was not actually even over yet and we did cover that fateful battle on podcast 94 from the book called men at Arnhem by Jeffrey Powell and it’s just it’s a it’s an incredible book and an account of the British Airborne Division in that battle where they lost almost 75% of its strength and from that point on was for all practical purposes purposes out of the war so who were these men that made this stand we saw one when we covered Jeffrey Powell’s book but obviously there were thousands more each one a hero and also each one a human being and I recently got a book in the mail that someone sent me and the book was written by one such man one such human being the book is called the memory in der and it was written by a man named reg Curtis so let’s go to this book and meet and learn and honor a hero of a human being here we go chapter one’s called prelude to war as a youth I carried out milk I carried out a milk round in the early morning and a newspaper round in the evening earning four shillings a week which helped towards the cost of the special clothing I needed as a choirboy at st. Augustine’s Church near Grove Park railway station when I left school in 1934 at the age of fourteen I got a job at Elliot brothers and Electrical and Mechanical Engineers firm in Lewis Shem I cycled five miles to and from work Monday to Saturday and learn quickly under the watchful eye of the charge hand learning how to operate a milling machine centre lathe hydraulic press and finally working as a capstan center operator I had to just read that part because you know you always hear about the old man who had to go five miles to work and five mile home uphill both ways yeah there you go mmm yo reg Curtis was doing it mm-hmm after three years I was beginning to set and by the way he’s like 14 years old at this time just kind of FYI mm-hmm so after three years I was beginning to settle in for a long-term job when a series of small strikes put the damper on my enthusiasm the persistent industrial action prompted my decision to join the army where such strikes were not tolerated you kind of get the impression this is our guy right he’s they’re having strikes whatever he says where where can I go where that’s not gonna happen oh I know the army my father had been in the Royal Army Service Corps and my grandfather was the chairman of the Royal British Legion so the army seemed natural enough my family I was encouraged by my uncle fred himself a regimental sergeant major I chose the foot guards because after a short term of service I would be acceptable to the City of London police in those days you had to be at least five and five feet ten and a half inches tall to be a policeman I was already 6 1 and still growing I presented myself to the guards recruiting office in London and enlisted with the 1st or Grenadier regiment of the Foot Guards and flowing forward a little bit there was there was one corporal Tucker so now he’s you know he don’t through the boot camp scenario

there was one corporal Tucker my squad instructor who took great delight in marching us on to the frozen parade ground with extra zest then put us on a charge if we slipped up so you not only received a sore rump but also got extra parade as punishment another approach was to march us toward a large puddle and then give the order to mark time come on knees higher he would shout from a safe distance scrutinizing each man in turn and looking for any signs of cracking we were just numbers at Caterham though to this day I say it did me no harm as it instilled a self-discipline that has served me well through life that’s what you’re gonna get and you know you and I were talking earlier about basically normal face basically look I’m not gonna show that this is not fun I’m not gonna show and you were saying that you learn if you can if you say look no factor right no factor I got to do this hard thing no factor not hey I gotta do this hard thing so I’m gonna get mentally all fired up no no just no factor and you learn over time that saying no factor keeping it in your head actually you get better at it and all of a sudden hard things you just go I was gonna do it I’m just going to attack it that’s one of the things that this type of military training does and even he’s saying look the stuff that this guy’s gonna go through is a thousand times harder than doing mark time March on the parade ground for an hour thousands of times harder infinitely harder but there’s a little lesson that he learned and plus he’s British right and the Brits with the stiff upper lip that’s that’s like a whole culture at least it used to be because the cultures change a lot in Britain but this warrior culture of hey there literally England if you think about it the stiff upper lip which is hey we’re just gonna go do that’s that’s the no factor culture of hey we got something to do cool we’re gonna go do it watch this where this is England what do you got we got some hard for school no factor stiff upper lip move forward fast forward a little bit he so he gets like one of his first jobs is is sort of guarding the the royal family and so he does some of that and then moves on to kind of the regular army going back to look soon enough I left the glamour of Windsor and the comfort of Victoria barracks behind and was sent to pair bright in Surrey where every Guardsman goes for field work craft and firing on the open range it was my duty to be able to handle and fire a gun in preparation to protect king and country in an emergency but trust my luck to a fallen had fallen foul of bad weather it was not really my cup of tea to prostrate myself on a wet and wind strip flying overhead range with a sergeant breathing down my neck whispering words of encouragement an added supply of rain water running over me in torrents from his groundsheet cape this is this is not the way you’d hear a US Marine described being on the range in a rainy day you know that’s just such a British way of explaining this and then he continues on it must have done some good as I made first-class shot though for what purpose I was not yet sure so guess what this is post-world War One I think I want to say this is 1939 when he enlisted so it isn’t or maybe 30 maybe in 38 actually I think it’s 37 yeah 1937 he joined the army so there’s you know World War one was what 20 years in the past that was the war to end all wars sure there’s a guy in Germany that might be getting a little uppity but he’s saying hey look I know I gotta learn how to use this gun but not really sure what I need to know how to do this for continue on fast-forward a little bit in early in 1939 I was transferred to the home of the British Army at Aldershot and Hampshire I’ll never forget the atmosphere of the night of the tattoo which tattoo is like a word for a parade basically when our battalion marched on dressed in navy blue trousers with red piping down the outseam outside outseam of each trouser leg long-sleeved white waiter type jackets with brass buttons and the guards peaked cap with red band around the crown carried out without a word of command our drill display lasted for 20 minutes the finale being the only time a command was given the battalion will advance in review order by the entire by the center quick march 450 men moved as one and the reason that I’ll had that once again when you just think about the human beings right psychologically in that moment look

you’re a cog in the wheel that’s all you are you’re a pawn on the chessboard that’s all you are but and he and he says it like that feeling that you get of being a part of something that’s literally bigger than you are mmm hey I’m just I’m just a guy out here in a uniform but there’s 450 of us moving as one mm and there’s some part of human instinct that likes to be a part of that tribe continuing on in August some mysterious goings-on began unusual apparatus in the form of digging equipment both powered and hand operated appeared along with wheel barrels and mountains of little sacks which turned out to be sand backs lorries loaded the lorries loaded with sand would dump their contents at various points and instead of the usual drill parades and kid inspections we found ourselves of filling these bags with sand and building barriers I thought it must be some sort of giant exercise and no idea that it was in preparation for real enemy being confined to the barracks with its own shops and theatres we didn’t mix with the public so knew very little about matters of national importance indeed in those days a servicemen was not allowed to discuss politics and we would be put on charge if caught attending a political meeting so these guys are completely isolated and I’m thinking about even when I joined the Navy and we’d go on a ship we’d have no idea what’s going on there’s no internet yet and so we had no idea what was going on in the outside world and even even living on base I mean you at least when even when I joined you had cable news right you knew the CNN was on and you’re watching CNN and you’re knowing what’s going on the world there’s no CNN there’s no TV there’s nothing so these guys are completely isolated they’re living they’re gone all the stores are going to our on base the theaters on base so there’s a living on base paying no mind to what’s going on overseas what is put on charge means get in trouble just in general yeah just in general like oh he got in trouble yeah yeah okay so it’s not like a you know cuz it’s varying levels of yeah and it covers and he I’m glad you brought that up because it uses it throughout kind of the book because there’s you get can get put on charge for all kinds yeah yeah and so it’s just a general term that means being in trouble may be written up written up may be sent to the brig for a little time whatever but you know you got put on charge yeah and they’ll court-martial nothing like this but could be you keep it up yeah if you well could be to you like if you did something really bad you just got welcome you know he’s gonna get put on charge okay yeah yeah is any level of trouble is what I perceived it is maybe a Brit military person will let us know if I’m wrong continue on on the 3rd of September war was declared with Germany and I realized what all the sandbagging was for within days my battalion was mobilized reservists were called up and along with thousands of other troops two weeks later two weeks later we were in France I think I was quite unperturbed at the possibility of getting killed after I was a soldier trained to kill so why should I have any qualms you know what’s nuts about this and I mean putting it in perspective World War one which was now 20 years at Pine sight was so insanely savage and yet this guy’s still Reggie’s like yeah you know what cool I’m not worried about getting killed I’m a soldier and you think about the casualties in World War one had you had to be it shows you it shows you how quickly we can forget right what war is because if you witnessed a day on the battlefield in World War one there’s no way you’d want to do any of that ever again but whatever you’re 20 years old you you’re a crack shot with that rifle time to go get some continue on in the Ford positions we oh yeah and by the way now I’m just jumping past hey they get there and by the way like I said they get to France two weeks later this isn’t like okay we’re doing a prolonged preparation no we’re declaring war on the 3rd and Eden September the 3rd of September we’re declaring war and then in September two weeks later you’re on the ground in France ready to get some in the forward position so now they start moving forward from France in the forward positions we took over a deserted village called trom born about six miles from the German border as it was snowing our fighting patrol decided to make use of sheets to create so they’re in these and they’re in these areas that are pretty much abandoned and so they’re going into houses and finding stuff as it was snowing our fighting patrol decided to make use of sheets to

create sets of camouflage gear white suits gloves over boots hats and coverings for our rifles hunting around we’ve I found a sewing machine thinking that we might as well do things the easy way as a fighting patrol we didn’t fire a shot there’s more matter of listening and night reconnaissance in our white outfits carrying only rifles and law and limited other gear we traveled more comfortably than we had previously which I skipped over the part where they’re basically doing long long movements to get into positions on one night reconnaissance we became overconfident don’t let that happen and one of our lads knocked up against the enemy wire it was a still bright moonlit night we were in no-man’s land just 75 feet from the forward German positions they’re talking obstruct Lee as luck would have it we were crawling so we froze hugging the ground for an hour without moving on another occasion we were on our way back to base when from and by the way on that one they they make it out on another occasion we were on our way back to base when from the direction of a bend in the road 50 yards away we saw a group of figures we were about two miles from our lines and knew that no other patrols were out so these men must be the enemy our patrol leader gave the signal to lie still we were straddled each side of the road in semi open ground but fortunately the night was not too bright the group passed by 10 men in all space six to eight feet apart they were well armed but warned no light suits keeping them in view and moving only our eyes we lay unnoticed if we had been spotted they would have had the advantage because of their automatic weapons and also the fact that they as they passed down our center we could not have fired on them for fear of hitting our own men never separate your forces which is hard when you’re walking down the road because when you’re walking down the road you’re gonna be in a what’s called a staggered file which means you got guys on either side of the road right which generally we’re trying to stay off the roads anyways but sometimes that road is the smartest place to move you’re gonna make a bunch of noise moving through the brush and you can get on that road and move really quietly so it’s something that can happen but then when they see the enemy they all get off the road what’s the quickest way to get off the road it’s on the route side that you’re on and what does that mean you’re on both sides the road now when the enemy walks in between you and you start shooting at the enemy you’re actually shooting at each other mm-hmm so you have to be cognizant of that which these guys were continuing on when I came into contact with two Germans and this is another thing about this book that first of all this book is not very long but the other thing that’s that’s crazy and British and no factor and stiff upper lip is he’ll he’ll describe the most insane things that were factually crazy as like in three sentences of what and just really matter of fact you know still although there are times where he definitely adds some color but that’s the way he is just just kind of matter-of-fact very British about the whole thing when I came into contact with the two Germans for the first time myself I gave them five rounds of rapid-fire at a range of fifty yards as they edged towards me under the cover of garden walls and fencing they were my first shots and anger I didn’t see the two Germans anymore so maybe they were lucky shots guardsman Bateman and Elms doubled past and shouted for me to come on and we continued in the open country making our way over to a bridge and halting roughly after roughly a thousand yards where we took up defensive positions air activity was increasingly tremendous Messerschmitt 109s were machine gunning at low level and had strafed our troops coming over the bridge only a few minutes after I crossed there’s these these talking about these and I don’t know if I just never really thought about it this much detail but he talks about these you know the enemy aircraft coming in at low level and strafing them all the time and if you’ve ever seen a Messerschmitt they’re just really badass looking aircraft and a lot of the German aircraft they just were I mean all the aircraft back then right I mean you got Spitfires you got Corsairs you got mustangs you got a p38 litem you’ve got awesome looking aircraft that and if you can imagine this – at that time those were the most technologically advanced things right so they didn’t look they didn’t look old right they look like a x-wing fighter from Star Wars right that’s what you were seeing you were seeing this magic machine that was just and now this thing is pointing at you at at an altitude of like 300 or 400 feet and just dumping machine-gun rounds at you and can you imagine the noise that they make with those big giant engines I mean yeah and so he talks about that a lot in these books and that’s kind of the first

encounter that he brings it up the other thing that scares me about it is it’s sort of random you know it’s almost like mortar fire because the aircraft’s gonna come down if it’s pointed two degrees in that direction you’re fine if it points two degrees in your direction you’re dead and the the rounds are hitting you know at a spacing of six feet or whatever when they get to the ground mm so if you’re in between those two six feet you’re totally fine or you get hit in the face or in the head and you’re dead so there’s this element of chance going on as well which I never like I never liked that element no chance continuing on leaving the area and traveling mainly on foot encountering few enemy on the ground but experiencing continuous shelling and bombing from the air we came to a stop by the river escape near the city of Tornai six miles from the French border here we went into a counter-attack during which a very well liked platoon commander lieutenant the Duke of Northumberland was killed Lance Corporal Harry Nichols and Guardsman Nash were ordered to flush out some bothersome machine-gun nest six hundred yards from our position that’s British right you’re gonna describe machine-gun nests as bothersome the section I was in gave covering fire what is that all about yeah that’s called cover and move fundamental to our left they picked their way with caution Nichols and a light machine gun under each arm Nichols with a light machine gun under each arm I didn’t see them anymore but they must have completed the mission because there were because the enemy fire ceased after a while Lance Corporal Nichols was posted missing presumed killed but later reported as being alive in enemy hands he was awarded the Victoria Cross for this action in this my built-up area on the river the Germans afforded very good target practice for me I found that I just could not miss but we were all getting weary through lack of sleep and proper food no one can live off scraps or from scavenging for long without feeling the worse for it and enemy numbers were increasing tenfold or so it seemed continuing on we came to another stop this was the last time I took part in a coordinated attack with the third Battalion Grenadier Guards we went into a bayonet charge I say again we went into a bayonet charge at courtier setting off I felt very scared scared and all sorts of things went through my mind like what the hell am I doing here oh yes I joined the army to become a policeman want to laugh the muck was flying fast bullets whining and splattering and I crouched lower to dodge them on I went with the rest my 16 inch Enfield bayonet blade fixed and protruding at the ready ready ready for what the only thing I’d ever stuck with a bayonet was a sack dummy then I saw them in the swirling smoke human beings not sacks real Germans blimey I trudged on wrenching my ankle in a pothole on and on until the order rang out charge charge I began to double now with my bayonet thrust at full on guard those figures growing bigger and bigger until they were just a few yards away among the din and yells of pain there were dead bodies from both sides littering my approach I was afoot from the two Germans when suddenly they both dropped their rifles and reached very high chattering something about comrade I was so bloody amazed and relieved that I said come on then I’ll take you prisoner which is just that paragraph for me to think through because I’m thinking when I see those Germans you know what I’m doing I’m shooting them right I’m not gonna continue with the bayonet charge right I’m not acting to take these guys prisoner gets on my battalion was now badly cut up and he uses the term caught up meaning shot up meaning you wounded injured he’s that throughout the book with numbers well below effective fighting power and we were ordered to attach ourselves to any unit and make our way to Dunkirk though no reason was given and here I was stuck with two German prisoners the journey was nerve-wracking with hordes of refugees jamming the roads and making military transport movement almost impossible lorries guns in French age 39 Hotchkiss tanks were often seen abandoned in ditches rendered immobile but clearly not by enemy action what was going on were we throwing in the towel so he’s seen all these abandoned vehicles and they’re being destroyed by friendly forces only because we don’t want the enemy to get a hold of our tanks and he’s trying to figure out

what’s going on and obviously anyone that knows anything about history knows that they’re heading for Dunkirk to leave the route was an absolute shambles with military and civilian gear constantly getting estranged rumors were plentiful now such as the story that Lee Leopold 3rd of dirt of Belgium and his army were capitulating towns all over France were falling into enemy hands French general Giroud had been taken prisoner to pile on the agony the Germans not let up on their bombing or machine gunning one bit and their slaughter of refugees was unnecessary and sickening to see we did what we could in the way of tending to civilian wounded using their own clothing or bedding for bandages while their dead were either left covered left or covered with something to hide their torn bodies and agonized faces even cattle grazing in the fields had not escaped the blitzkrieg and lay bloated through lack of milking or blown apart by shell fire the carnage spread for a good two miles after seeing those poor wretched civilians so caught up my occasional wounded soldier the occasional wounded soldier did not seem quite so bad my two German prisoners appeared to be as disgusted by all of this as I was and you’re gonna see throughout this book the impression that he gets of the German is you could see that there’s definitely a wide range of of Germans that they encounter obviously some completely hostile but there’s some that clearly are not are not totally engaged in the Nazi attitude hmm and there’s plenty interesting to hear as he interacts with people throughout it continue on only reached the outskirts of Dunkirk to find a mass buildup of French and British soldiers with transport tanks and artillery pieces jamming the roads like a London rush-hour the next five days were a mixture of hell hunger and fatigue and I think it was only thanks to the fatigue that I overcame the hell and the hunger I know it was five days because I put a nick in my rifle but each morning when roused by this visiting stickers and Messerschmitts so they’re getting bombed and they’re gonna machine-gunned every morning during daylight the appointed beachmaster a British officer mustered officers and NCOs from all regiments and briefed them to organize parties of men to tend to wounded bury the dead and scavenge for ammunition and food I found it most distasteful removing tins of bully beef and biscuit remains from corpses but at least I still had my life the beach was littered with abandoned lorries and trucks as well as Army Staff cars with wheels missing and doors hanging off as I wandered wandered around going about my tasks among these mutilated forms that were once carefree young men I remember thinking that I must be dreaming I was brought back to reality sharply by the appearance of two enemy fighter planes which proceeded to distribute even more death and panic I dived over a corpse and slithered down a sand dune the staring eyes of the corpse saying to me get your head down and arse up after five days on the beaches it was a relief to find that it was finally my turn to get into the snake-like line of troops readying for departure as I drew closer to the vast mass of a ship a minesweeper heaving in the Mucky looking swell I could see its multi-barreled ack-ack gun porting skyward in readiness for any Stuka fighters or attack or fighter attack the operator seeming oblivious to our presence one was scanning the sky with his binoculars the water was by now was well and truly up to my neck and I still had fifty feet to go I clung to the rope with both hands and pushed on the man behind gave me a shove the water kept lapping over my nose and into my eyes gulping choking and spitting out the endless mouthfuls of oily foul tasting saltwater I was now quite submerged with a last mighty effort I lunged in the direction of the boat still grasping at that rope I could not have been it could not have been more than a minute that I was underwater but it felt like a lifetime clinging on tight to the rope with my left hand with my right i groped for the rope mesh hanging down the side of the ship and with great exultation found and grabbed it I managed to pull myself up up up and up the ship rocking and heaving with each vibration of the exploding bombs which were arriving much too close for my liking so finally he’s on board a ship and they’re getting bombed and strafed flopping down exhausted I was soon asleep though inevitably we had a visit visit from a Messerschmitt then this woke me violently as its bullets danced along the ship’s deck causing large pieces of wood splinters to spew over everyone these administers as much damage as the bullets to some unfortunate recipients I dozed off again and slept like a log

until we docked in England so ended my participation with more than 300,000 others in operation dynamo better known as the history better known to history as the miracle of Dunkirk so that’s the way you kick things off with your with your war and I forget the time that passed and I know that the time that seemed to pass was very quick the way I just read it skipping a bunch of stuff but it was like 200 days that he was on the ground this was no hey I was there for a week no they were there moving forward fighting drawing back going to attack back and forth this whole time and and you know that could be you know though just that experience right there could be a whole book and into itself right that’s how that’s how low-key reg Curtis is you know he was literally extracted off of Dunkirk after this entire campaign falls apart and he covers it in 20 pages not even 20 pages mmm because he’s getting warmed up so he gets home and he says they’re followed two weeks of leave that I enjoyed more than ever before the sheer ecstasy of white sheets and pint after pint of beautiful beer and the days of roughing it in France seem soon seemed very long ago yeah can you gotta kind of think how hard it’s like when you’re going through basic SEAL training mm-hmm what they do is they during hell week you’ve been awake for like two or three days and then they go hey they come up with this big story and they tell you that oh you’re gonna we’ve we’ve kept you we were too hard on you guys we have the the commanding officer just told us we got a we got to put you guys to sleep for eight hours so go get warm dry clothes on and we’ll come back to you guys and wake you up in eight hours and you’re of course you believe it I mean back in the day we believed because we didn’t know any better no one gave us any heads up there was no in for Intel Network providing information there wasn’t there wasn’t like the movies about the stuff right so we just thought wow that seems kind of crazy but okay and then you get all dressed nice warm clothes and you’re all dry you go you go literally get in your bed and then as soon as you fall asleep like 20 minutes goes by and in there with machine guns and bullhorns and they’re waking you up so when you think about that’s that’s retaining right that’s a tiny tiny little thing when you compare it to what’s going on here this guy goes to France starving like wounded and dead everywhere fear gets back to England goes on leave for two weeks white sheets you know beer it’s all good and then you know what’s you you know what’s gonna happen you’re gonna go back when when you when they did that to you uh in was that hell week yeah they did okay so before there was before there was like a network right you see the and you said you believed it like when they say oh we put you all right was there a party you mind like or as far as part of the reason why you believed it’s because like they are pushing you pretty hard at any point were you like hey push too hard yeah actually I thought what you’re gonna say is was there part of my mom and this would have been I would said yes whether part of my mind was like this is too good to be true this is all yeah I think that’s you know that I would say the bigger part of my mind was saying that but I kind of was like oh I seems like a cool like they’re telling us this red but no no before that though like at any point where they like I know he’ll or were you or whoever being like I know how weak supposed to be hard but like this is kind of excessive like yeah I had no data on which to judge it yeah you knew is gonna be hard y’all was talking to a guy that quit buds and I said you know what why did you quit and he said because it sucked and I said well didn’t you know that it was gonna suck when you went there I mean that’s where you’re going yeah all know it sucks mmm go watch it a video you know and it’s like it’s gonna be it’s gonna suck it’s gonna be cold it’s gonna be wet it’s gonna be miserable it just feels like that yeah it’s gonna suck like that part but then you know like it goes sometimes in your brain anyway it’ll go beyond sucked in into like whether it be dangerous I never felt anything like no I was always like all this is this is just the training right okay then yeah then it that makes sense that you could go to when they say oh yeah here’s the eight hours sleep or whatever you could go to a while this might be too good to be true yeah oh yeah so I’m saying what you’re saying is you’re sure that there’s guys who were like yeah that’s right yeah man horses wait you are and then those the guys that when they get when the trick comes they get trapped brother defeated yeah I’m devastated mentally devastated that’s why it’s one of the best things well not a lot there’s a lot of people that don’t get out of that bed right they don’t get out of that bed because as soon as you get out you’re going straight to the surf zone and people

don’t like that man I mean you can hear seals talk about it guys can get scarred from liking the ocean for years yeah for years they don’t want to go in the water they don’t want to do it because because because they just they use it as an implement of torture mm-hmm me I didn’t care you know like I surfed and it was all good you know let’s go get some sort of Wow back to the book so he’s home he’s taking a little time off he goes back and starts doing kind of local let’s call it like local guard type activities and then we get this in August I received a telegram telling me that my home in South London had been hit by a sea mine and I was given compassionate leave to return what the hell was a sea mine doing inland it must be a mistake I thought however apparently there was such a thing which came down attached to a parachute so that’s what the Nazis were doing and so he gets a little leave to go and check things out and so he goes and here we go this is him finding his home upon reaching Grove Park as I turned into Fairfield Road I immediately saw that our house and received a direct hit there was now just a heap of debris where once it stood half a dozen houses and dozens more were badly damaged the local ARP warden told me that not one person had been killed because everyone had taken to their Anderson air-raid shelters my parents were both ok and staying with some friends a mile up the road it was a shock to see our home destroyed but after all I had seen in France I think I must have become immune to any real emotions and then this happens in October as a result of a directive sent out by our Prime Minister Winston Churchill we receive the letter which was read out to us by the regimental sergeant major volunteers he shouted for a new type of fighting soldier are required he glanced over the top of the paper beady eyes registering some amusement soldiers he carried on to be trained as commandos and parachutists now I know that you would not wish to desert the regimen but anyone wishing to volunteer one pace forward march glaring as he did so he took three stealthy steps towards us well you all chicken then there was not a titter nor even a hesitant shuffle meaning everyone was just standing fast I fought back to the days in France I thought of the carnage of the British prisoners of war the Warwick regiment herded into a field just outside Dunkirk and machine gun to death by the waffen-ss I thought of my home being blown to smithereens and how the Germans were blocking my ambition to become a London policeman I took a pace forward before it was too late and some time passes as they try and get everything organized and then it continues on I was to join number two commando later renamed the 11th Special Air Service battalion and still later the first parachute battalion in Britain at that time there was little or no knowledge of the techniques of parachuting so everything had to be thought out very carefully there were no special types of parachutes for jumping from aircraft and no suitable aircraft the whole lot had to be devised developed and tested all too often with fatal casualties or severe injuries just learning how to conduct parachute operations of from scratch so they start their training and the training is is really really hard as as you can imagine here we go now he settled down to some real soldiering and I actually begin to enjoy the tests thrust upon us I didn’t realize at first that we were being used as human guinea pigs trying out new methods of roughing it and of delivering a soldier to the place of battle for everyone for everyone it was a taste test of strength involving guts sheer cunning and a determination to win some conditions were abominable but my conscience told me that this was a challenge I must rise to and again this is when you got someone that’s learning through repetition how to take pain and suffering and do it in a way that is no factor so jumping forward here through some training that they go through and and all the training is just it’s like

it’s a guinea pigs right the training is just guinea pigs they’re just doing crazy things to these guys and then they do their first parachute jump it gets done with that within the next week our seven jumps had been achieved and we cannot wait to so those blue wings on the right arm of the battle battle dress blouse one lad he even brought his sewing kit along with him and sat down in the corner of the hangar to get them on before anyone else it was odd to see a man walking around in width and Shaw in Manchester with their wings wings shoulders slightly forward of the rest of their bodies civilians and other non para soldiers were asking who are these blokes with the wings some sort of secret unit that’s not a little bit a unit pride right this is why dichotomy of leadership when Rafe and Saif disobeyed mm-hmm big Jocko in warp star two wearing patches this is one of those things that you know us think in the back of my head like the if you’re gonna if that makes you hold your check start a little bit higher and you get that unit pride continuing on we were training both as parachutists and also for the specialized work of the commando which meant that a lot of extra work had to be put in to achieve the very best end result above all above all it was emphasized it was emphatically stressed that we should never accept defeat even went up against overwhelming odds and we were taught to persevere to the end and to be able to endure great if not impossible fatigue sound familiar that’s what we do that’s what we do in the military top to persevere to the end and I guess that’s so much of that is so much of that is what the way you know you’re taught to do that because you do it because when you go to like SEAL training or whatever there’s no class that says ok when you get tired think about this no class that says that no class that says when you feel like you want to quit then you should think about this or you should say this no if you’re if that’s where your head is at and you want to quit there’s no they don’t teach you anything to stop it what what you learn the way you’re taught is by oh I’m gonna get through this mmm that’s what’s going to happen I’m gonna get through this of course we have to learn a little bit about hand-to-hand combat we practice not only the use of the knife but also how to best avoid one when used against us Chinese experts taught us judo and unarmed combat with a rifle and fixed bayonet we would be flung at you or sorry a rifle with fixed bayonets trucked er who’d yell come on lunge at me I lunged hesitatingly for the first time come on Longshanks lunge you won’t get anywhere near me right mate I thought you asked for it and I took a really good lunge but this man was an old hand like lightning he parried my blow and before I knew it I was flat on my back – the rifle he was the same with the fighting knife and quite a few of us nursed cuts at the end of a day’s training those knives were razor sharp there’s no real world in April of 1941 we were visited by Winston Churchill accompanied by Sir Arthur Barrett and major-general Sir Hastings Ismay and he goes he actually go I’m not gonna tell the whole story but there’s a one point where where where reg has a little very short conversation with with Winston Churchill and basically he’s reges the receiver on a dis on like a hand-to-hand combat display and he ends up getting thrown you know like a hip toss I’m imagining and and when he’s done and he’s kind of getting up off the ground and in Winston Churchill looks at him and says uh did you really try lad and and reg looks at him and says what do you bloody think sir and then he said Winston Churchill pursed his lips gave a big grin and waddled off looking delighted so that’s pretty awesome interaction with Winston Churchill who by the way we haven’t we haven’t even we haven’t even started to get into the Winston Churchill scene here on the podcast but you know it’s covered you know it’s coming and and that’ll be I’m many podcasts and this is a little glimpse into the future continuing on bypassing usual military

procedure various unorthodox methods and the use of small arms explosives were adopted an official eyes were shut so long as the end of June result was achieved one such stunt was to withdraw the safety pin from a hand grenade release the arm which we call the spoon release the arm which in turn would fire the 4 second fuse in the primed grenade making it really live hold it for a second and then throw it quickly the object being to make sure the enemy would have no time to throw it back anyone refusing this dangerous venture would be subject to a variety of Flowery names luckily we had no casualties as a result and what makes that scariest so a grenade has a 4 second fuse when you pull we are holding something that what do they call it the arm it actually fits into the web of your hand this this this piece of like light aluminum and you when you put it in the web of your hand and then you hold the grenade that thing is stuck in place mm-hmm now you then you next thing you do is you pull the pin because when the pins in there that arm doesn’t go anywhere because it’s spring-loaded as soon as you pull the pin that there’s tension on the spring that’s ready to make that spoon or arm fly off and that’s what arms it to blow up in four seconds mmm the problem is is that the fuses aren’t perfect so depending on the fuse that you get could be could be three seconds could be six seconds could be four seconds like it’s supposed to be is there a possibility it’s two seconds yes there is so when you cook we call it cooking it off so when you cook off that that grenade there’s a possibility that it goes off but if you don’t cook it off at all and you throw it the enemy can throw it back here especially if it’s four seconds I mean one of their choices they can either jump on it they can dive away or they can grab it throw back if they think you haven’t cooked it back well best thing to do is get it out of there remember T Fred Harvey yes he was getting grenade tossing fights with the Japanese so as this training is going on also we have to remember there’s the mental fortitude part there’s the tactical training but we can’t ever forget just physically physically being hard to keep on top form we had plenty of physical training cross country runs compass marches and night exercises discipline was self-imposed and any need to impose it by a superior was frowned upon yes that’s what we want we don’t want to we don’t want to have to impose discipline wrote about in leadership strategy tactics that’s not the if you have to impose discipline something wrong then you know what’s wrong your leadership is wrong because if you’re leading correctly the troops will put discipline on themselves they will they will acquire self-discipline because they understand why it’s important psychological and physical resistance were driven to the utmost until men could take their limit and even more but it was never enough we were marched counter marched and marched again in fair weather and in foul live ammunition fired at close range actually helped I found myself so preoccupied with making sure I did not get hit that I became oblivious to fatigue and plotted on at the end of the day’s training I would stretch out on the hanger for absolutely shagged on passing sergeant Sid Oxley might prod me and say something like not bad lad not bad do better tomorrow a get stuffed was the usual quiet reply as I slipped a well-earned cigarette between my lips and drew hard so there’s a pretty good chunk of this training in there and again all this training was they just created this they just created that this was new or like we’re making up and props one thing when I look at the course of my entire life there’s like a couple moments in time where things made an impression on me and one of the things that made an impression on me as a little kid was I had these toy soldiers I had a lot of toy soldiers but the British commandos from World War two they had little ladders they had little grappling hooks they had boats and they had babies right you know what I’m talking about and when you’re a little weight you don’t know what a B Gnaeus I know the meaning okay well you know when you see a stereotypical like let’s say a robber in a movie and they’re sneaking around and they’re wearing a black beanie uh-huh I think that all stems from the British commandos for so for me when I saw like those little carrot those little soldiers that I had mm-hmm with black

beanies and rubber rafts that look like zodiacs they also had I had a little kayak for him too interesting yeah and I think all seeing those things I was always drawn to the maritime component of Special Operations interesting hey I want to be the closer what’s the closest thing I can be to a British commando I see these guys with boats and a weird thing is I mean that’s that’s not what these guys are doing in fact and I didn’t say this reg reg Curtis didn’t know how to swim that’s why he was so scared and he did he doesn’t say it until he later in the book that’s why he was so scared of Dunkirk that’s why he’s talking about how he’s underwater there’s nothing he can do about he’s hanging on the rope because he doesn’t know how to swim and he’s weighted down uh-huh but yeah the the British commandos which I’m sure will broke off from the parachute guys but that’s kind of a major a major influence on a whatever five six year old kid yeah I don’t remember any well then again I guess I wasn’t into the toy soldiers element yeah you were just getting like the regular big green toy soldiers from like the grocery store yeah yeah ornament for sure I had n GI Joe I graduated from plain green army men to legit little soldiers that came from different units and I had all these different units and I knew what kind of gear they had with them I had the Africa Corps right then not the Nazi Africa Corps and again the ones that stand out were the ones that had like looked a little bit different the Africa Corps guys were can instead of green the British commandos were green I had I had paratroopers I had a little army men just more cement they were smaller than the regular army men yeah they were small they were I think I think their nomenclature is 1/32 I think they were really small they were you know half an inch tall maybe it may be three quarters of an inch tall and they still had individual soldier that bottom platform that little bottom platform huh and I would set up battle scenes you know out in the yard and play-by-play the way things were unfolding yeah he probably went deep though I’m like you know the regular army men set man set the guy who’s crawling a little low crawl guy yeah yeah yeah he like he would be flying sometimes in my so in your scenario yeah yeah because he could be in that flying position well I had that I had the model plane so I also had a teacher named mr. McGuirk in high school and he had a little army he had little planes and all throughout his room the classroom hanging you know model little model playing so I had model planes too because it was all trying to make unmake this battle scenario and the weird thing is the weird thing is about this stuff is like okay if my son let’s face it if my son has army soldiers we kind of expect that just to be normal right like hey of course I mean by the time that kid was born he had more soldiers did he know what to do with yeah but there’s some instinctual thing even you you were like back in kawaii’ sure right there’s no I mean your mom wasn’t saying hey I really want you to be interested in military stuff right and yet you had green army soldiers yes and even though some of them could fly which is a little bit unrealistic some of them were still low crawling right yes some of them were engaging in battle against other soldiers yeah so you have an instinct for war yes big time and I think most just like I talked earlier about the instinct for like hey I’m part of something bigger than me which is a beautiful thing if you think about it right that’s a beautiful thing like I am part of this group that I’m I’m subordinate to this group as a powerful thing and it has to be countered correctly because you don’t want to be someone that gets brainwashed and joins a cult right the the bhagwan shree rajneesh cult sir right you don’t want to be that person uh know that yeah that is weird now that you mentioned that like yet it wouldn’t call it an instinct for war like I think because it’s it’s so common like consider like GI Joes okay I’ll say this scenario so we we had a queer my dad built our house and he well he was one of the people who built our house so when we were digging the cesspool it’s like septic tank septic tank I guess it’s like a huge hole no super deep anyway they put the cap on it okay this big concrete cap on it okay then they fill it in and then but as it remains is still a big hole like the size of a Jacuzzi okay about that size but it’s just a dirt hole that’s weird it’s like a weird like a dug in jacuzzi in dirt so I’m not sure what this is for going yeah that’s just the way it sorted itself out okay so it sounds like a fox

hole yeah yeah but um and then you drain I’m quiet rains pretty much every day yeah but enough to put a cool little shallow puddle in the bottom of that and mud so we’re in a muddy terrain scenario GI Joe yeah wise so we got Hills we got at the top of the hill we got the valleys that think you know the the Watterson area at the bottom and oh yeah it was like battles going on the whole time we’d light stuff on fire and your dad was no military experience your mom was no military experience your neighbors my grandfather was a TD but I decide yeah Canadian a d-day yes that’s right salute but I had no idea at this point obviously but unless we’re still doing it GI Joes good guys versus bad guys killing like part the GI Joes like you could blow them up with firecrackers and then bury them and they do all this stuff you haven’t ceremony since stuff oh yeah we’re going deep yeah big time caching the whole dramatic the him and it’s not like someone like told on told ya and how much how much did you see how many war movies had you seen on TV even remember I don’t remember but you know you could I mean this is what like 80s will say 1980s or maybe there’s some a-team going on a team and watch did not like religiously I think so it’s just we’re talking the instinct that’s the bomb yeah I did I mean mash was on I don’t think I’d ever watched mash that’s more than comedy though that’s not like a but yes it is kind of a comedy if you if you watch that show it’s actually in many ways there’s some pretty heavy episodes of mash through actually because I remember watching it when I was a kid and there’s definitely I remember watching that movie going Oh watching that show sometimes and you everyone’s expecting a laugh but then sometimes it would be super heavy because they would occasionally inject war yes right and yeah so yeah so I think there’s just an instinct that people can have at some level and I think obviously just like in sync of being something bigger than yourself that’s an instinct that people can have at different levels right not everyone’s a 10 in hey I want to be part of a group that’s bigger than Mila not ever not everyone is in fact I would say maybe you don’t even want to be a 10 because then you’re just looking for a cult to join right next thing you know you’re buying a guy Rolls Royces which is what you gotta watch out for right so we’re not looking to do that same thing with the war like instinct right there’s some people that are pretty high up on that I believe I was pretty pretty high up on that because I don’t remember wanting to do other things right so like when I thought about my future as a child the thought was be a soldier like that’s what I remember be a commando that’s what I remember so it’s you know it’s something that and I’m sure there’s a bunch of other you know like a fatherly instinct right or a motherly instinct or here’s another interesting one some people like to travel right yeah some people want to move around a lot some people want to stay home there’s like different levels of instincts that people have hmm some people want to settle down and hold what you got yeah some people don’t want to do that at all so people have various instincts so I would say that what they did in this training is honed the instincts that people did have and get rid of people that didn’t have enough of the instinct for war and you know once again talking about seal training they’re not really teaching you anything they’re just getting rid of people that don’t have the right instinct yeah can’t do it yep that’s what they’re really doing they’re not teaching anything you learn only because you learn from your experience but it’s not an active teaching protocol yeah that’s it it’s so deep what do you think do you think that that’s like good like is that and of course I’m gonna say is it the best way because who knows the best way but is that kind of the best way to do it because it kind of seems like it could be the best way to do it it’s definitely it’s definitely you’re not gonna get me well you’re gonna minimize the amount of stray voltage don’t you kind of wanna work with someone that has a higher instinct for winning yeah then someone that’s gotta be coaxed and trained yeah exactly I’m saying that’s what it seems that’s why it seems like it’s a pretty good thing to me yeah it’s almost like would you rather have on your football team someone that and I think about this think about your the who’s the person that brings people onto the team it’s not the coach but like the GM I don’t know so let’s say you’re in control of a football team and you’re gonna take this thing as far as you can this is your only job do you want the guy that you get that you have to train a bunch to get him to be able to run a fast for fast 40 or do you want a guy that comes out of the gate and he’s kind of already there right this is a no-brainer of course now there are outliers that I

actually want this guy that was slow but he’s such a hard worker and a grinder that he’s going to excel anyways like I want that guy and guess what seal training does that you know if you’re a gazelle and you’re really great athlete it doesn’t test you as much as the guy that’s a grinder yeah but the guy that’s a really great athlete has a little bit more value out of the gate than the guy that’s a grinder once you show up at the team though you want the guys to grinder more than you want the guy that’s a good athlete right yeah so almost like it’s all sort of and that’s not a guaranteed every time because there’s some guys that were freaking great athletes and they were just incredible so don’t don’t take that one wrong but necessarily a guy that’s a great athlete versus a guy that is just has can gut through it probably I would lean towards the guy that can gut through it because he has a level of grit you’re not you don’t face a pull-up bar out in the battlefield right yeah you’re not you don’t you know it’s not there yeah and then that makes sense I mean it’s all kind of in the same bucket really but we’re like these are just attributes right so how does Leif put it he’ll say um buds is just a screening process to weed out people who we don’t think have the characteristics to be successful on the battlefield which is a very eloquent way of putting it Eliquis so those characteristics aren’t necessarily who can do the most pull-ups it’s not that because look if you’re doing like there’s a minimum though right obviously like you have to do as fair as the minimum is so minimum to like get two buds the minimum is so minimum it should be disqualifying if you can actually only do that many I’m not kidding the minimum pulps gotta buds is something like ten right tiny it’s ridiculous yes yes so just like I said it’s like okay we haven’t we have a minimum and that’s sort of it so who cares if you can do fifty who cares really we care about other stuff yeah well there’s a well-rounded component right and and that’s what makes that’s the thing that makes the SEAL training hard is you can’t just be a fast runner you can’t just be a fast swimmer you can’t just be strong upper body you can’t just be comfortable in the water you can’t just be durable you got to be all those things and what’s hard is they’re contrary to each other right because being able to run 14 miles is one type of person that’s going to be really good at that being able to get the obstacle course is another person that has a lot of upper-body strength this person has a lot of endurance this person ever and then you add in hey you need to be able to pick up your buddy and sprint with them over the berm that’s explosiveness so we want this really kind of middle-of-the-road on a bunch of different things well-rounded as opposed to someone that’s just really good at one particular thing and there’s all kinds of people that show up that are great athletes in one category and it doesn’t work for ya so that add the attribute of all the attributes that contribute about the guy who can gut through stuff sort of lifts up all those attributes if they’re not that high so let’s say that’s the main one then yes yes you want the guy who that comes naturally to rather than the guy who in my there teaching may falter later and I’m saying yeah I want that to be part of you make sense part of you and man what a good quality to have that’s the thing that’s that’s the thing people look we everyone gets a certain amount of talent you can decide to work hard you can decide to work hard now now there are people that say that work ethic is a talent right I get that concept and I think the reason it appears to be that way is because you get people that work so hard that you think oh that must be a talent of theirs right to have this talent that you’re gonna work so hard I don’t I well I think that you have well you do you have way more influence over that talent then you do over your explosive strength yeah well I mean infinitely more yeah because you can’t I don’t know the same no genetics expert but I don’t know that there’s a gene or a series of genes that gives you work ethic yeah yeah I would say the answer’s no I mean not not alright me we could check with the bro science like schools on that one yeah those but there I bet you know when they start breaking down this genetic stuff they’re gonna start finding stuff about people that’s gonna be really interesting and some of it will be time I mean I’m not going Sam Harris you know know you you’re every decision that you make is kind of pre and free will yeah but you know I’m sure Sam and I will have a chance to sit down if he has the courage to step up to the plate and have a real conversation with me but but I’m I bet as this stuff gets uncovered they will find that there’s a propensity right like their pen City for

focus yeah because that’s what hard work is kind of it’s just hey look that like when I was going to college and I would get to I did one semester I took five English classes the dumbest thing I’ve ever done I would be so crushed with reading over you know during the week but then on the weekend would come and I’d have to read five English classes worth of reading and that was when I would be like okay I would have to like turn the switch in my head and just go full-on sit there and read for 10 hours and read in memory what I was reading so that was a switch it was like oh and I remember thinking myself I’d be talking to other people that had one English class and they’d say I’d say did you do the reading can you tell me what happened in a bit yeah of course I did the reading and they’d be like I cannot sit down and read for that long and I’d be like no hey you don’t care B you lack discipline C maybe I’ve got a little propensity to be able to turn it on or maybe it’s just through force of will look I want to get an A in this class why because yeah because I don’t want these instructors looking at me thinking that they got a little something mom me no you don’t got anything on me I’ll read this material and I’ll know it yeah and all that and all that right there is it so you just so everyone realizes I’m not crazy that’s just gamification that’s just gamification in my head to make things fun to make things challenging right I’ll do that with anything all day long if I’ve got something to do I’m gonna have a good time with it yeah yeah we’re gonna have a good time with it I’m fine so when you hear me you know I was watching something Larry Bird sure and he was this he’s famous for talking trash to all the other players but he worked so hard he was also famous for his work ethic but I think there’s a little bit of gamification right when you go I’m gonna do this to you I’m gonna do things like he would come down the court and you know he’d say like he’d say uh here comes three who wants it meaning come and try and guard me I’m gonna hit a three-pointer and he would do it yeah yeah you know there’s a little bit of gamification people respond well that so that’s me when I was going to college as a 28 year old man by the way I’m not talking I was a 18 year old kid all worried about how I looked and what the party what am I worried about any of that I was in there to win and in order to win I made it into a game for myself yeah oh you think you’re gonna ask me you think they’re gonna come up with a question on this reading material that you gave me that I’m not gonna know the answer to watch this so that way I’m actually paying attention actually paying attention to what’s going on as opposed to I don’t care doesn’t really matter I’m in the Navy anyways who cares what I get for a grade ball ball ball ball I could make those excuses all day you can always take the easy path if you want to it’s always there you just gotta remember that it leads downhill yeah and if you take the righteous path well then you’re gonna move in the right direction yeah yeah but it still seems like you got all those methods we’ll say like from you know like you weren’t born with that you know kind of thing no it seems like who knows you got yes it does see it seems like it’s a choice that I make well and it seems also like where are you like what you learned along the way what that’s what what lessons got reinforced the you know what lessons got reinforced for me if I don’t work hard I’ll lose yeah that lesson got reinforced on me over and over and over again if I don’t work hard I’ll lose if I work hard I can do better I might not win but I can do better and I’ll tell you something else if your attitude is like if your attitude is only I’m gonna win like that’s why I’m doing this you’re not gonna win every time mm-hmm but let me tell you what your attitude can be I might not win every time but I’m gonna get your respect yeah you would when you get done beating me when you get done beating me and you shake my hand you’re gonna mean it yeah because you you had you’re gonna mean it I’m gonna push you at a minimum that’s what’s happening so if you beat me and and by the way I don’t hold it against you when you beat me I respect if you beat me I know you worked I know you got I know you got after it which is cool and I don’t I don’t hold any angst whatsoever it’s good actually because I know that this guy worked harder than me and I know I got to work even harder so good for you so that’s that comes that’s learned that’s me learning as a kid oh I wasn’t good at this anymore I look back in my life now like I wasn’t great at soccer I never played soccer outside the soccer season other kids are running around dribbling the soccer ball whatever going to camp whatever I didn’t didn’t care enough it didn’t well didn’t understand the first thing that I got well I got very focused in the SEAL Teams and in the SEAL Teams because you’re going

against high-caliber people not all of them but you got some people at the top of the bell curve that are freaking badasses and if you’re if for me so I got these incredible athletes you know when I checked in a SEAL team one I’m gonna try and think this was probably ten of us when SEAL team want a pretty good chunk of the guys went to SEAL team one there was some guys in that went to SEAL team one that were total athletic studs I mean infinitely better than me in every category of athleticism you know and I knew like okay if I’m gonna hang with these guys I’m gonna have to work really really hard just to hang with them just to hang with not to beat them just to hang with them so that idea gets reinforced over time okay if I don’t work hard I’ll be at the bottom of the barrel and and then what it boils down to if I’m at the bottom of the barrel how much am i helping the team because if I’m if I’m a if I’m a detriment to the team I’m now now what am I even doing with my life right I do not want to be a detriment to the team I want to be a positive to the team and even though I might not be the best guy in the platoon I might not be the strongest the fastest the best shot whatever those things are if I’m third or fourth or fifth in some of those categories okay well now I’m a bad to the team now I can help which is what it all boils down to and when it all boils down to it’s like you know you can make an excuse for yourself and live with it a little bit right yeah but you can’t make an excuse for the team meaning hey look even in extreme case well you know if I’m not that great of a shot and the enemy gets a shot off quicker than me oh well I’m gonna die that’s that you that’s the job of God that’s the choice of you know whatever but if you just play that out one step further if I don’t get this shot off this guy will have the chance to shoot one of my buddies that’s do you need it you put more rounds downrange yeah you need to shoot more you need to get better and faster faster on your reloads fast ready to draw a faster your sight pictures after you need to get better yeah because you don’t let your teammates down yeah so when that’s what’s really driving you that’s powerful that’s more powerful than I just want to be the best I don’t want to just be the best cuz you can give yourself a little slack in there but when you look at it you say oh I don’t want to let my teammates down they’re counting on me that will make you stay up later that will make you wake up earlier that will drive you to try and be better and that lesson that lesson on me got reinforced over and over again and if I didn’t work hard then I wouldn’t be I failed something in Budds called pool competency yeah and I I failed it right and I was gonna say I shouldn’t have failed it and the reason I was gonna say I shouldn’t have failed it was because I I was comfortable in the water I’d done all the water stuff kind of first time every time meaning not tying in life-saving I was good I felt really comfortable and so when I failed it I was sort of I was deeply disappointed that I failed it and I was hyper worried that maybe I’m not gonna make it through this training and so we me and a couple of the other guys that failed we spent the entire weekend in the dip tank which is the little little box that you fill with water to clean stuff in and I don’t even know the why the instruct the instructors let us use dive gear I have no idea why this was not safe and maybe we just did it I don’t really but we got in this dip tank and we we did pool comp to each other for hours and we just ripped the stuff off and rip you know crossed each other until we went through the procedure so many times when I went to retake pool comp it was it was easy it was easy when I went to retake it on Monday so what what lesson got reinforced I need to prepare more I need to work harder I need to go the extra distance or else I can fail so there’s another little reinforcement I told you this one before I failed to run in seal training why did I fail run I failed a run in seal training because I paced myself and said well you know I’ll save a little something and I didn’t have anything to save what I needed to do was run as hard as I could so I failed the run when I paced myself the next run what did I do when that when they said go I ran as fast as I could for the entire thing because you’re not allowed to wear a watch so you have no idea what the time is you you just and so you think about that you think about when you’re cruising on a run versus when you’re running as hard as you can it’s hard to tell where that cruise levels at because am i running am i running a six-minute mile mm-hm if I’m cruising am i running a 630 or mine running a 720 it can be hard to judge especially when you’re sore like you’re your body’s sore so you know if you did if you did 508 count bodybuilders at 3 o’clock in the morning and then you go out and you run your run your pace you might seem like you’re running faster than you really are so what did I learn from that I failed the run and now what did I have to do I realized I can never

let off again ever so there’s a little lesson getting reinforced yeah over and over and over again don’t leave it up to chance leave it up the chance do do the work and that’s the way that’s how you develop these things no one told me no one told me what I just said i wit maybe I wish somebody would’ve and the reason I say maybe it’s because maybe you still don’t learn it because there’s some things that you have to actually go through there’s some things that the only thing that’s going to teach you is experience yeah and in even Tom like these you went through these things where the environment sort of provided these lessons no matter how like overt or covert they were like provided to you through the end right like you know how like I like a farmer or something like this someone who’s sort of grew up just working hard as a way of life you put them in another environment we’re working hard will show itself or whatever or they’ll work hard yeah because the environment sort of provided that or whatever so yeah so that makes sense you know and obviously we can’t count every second of your life and here’s where this came from it was it you know obviously but it seems like the work ethic and and being able to like still fortitude like mentally through things or whatever it seems like that’s an environmental thing fully it is and that’s why reg Curtis was biking five miles to work and five miles home every day Monday Monday through Saturday yeah six days a week get some uphill both ways uphill both ways so that is what they learned in this training some of these things that we just talked about and and again the book details these things really well but we’re gonna jump ahead right now to a chapter five a cruise to North Africa on the ship I bordered and after endless trudging along narrow passageways and up and down the steep stairs and gangways I was directed to an area below the waterline after the ship soon after casting off we learned that we were heading for Algiers from where we would take part to combine operation by Great Britain and the United States codenamed Operation Torch that’s led yet you get on this ship to leave you don’t even know where you’re going you’re just gonna go get some you yeah that’s what you know you know knee you know you’re gonna go get some moving forward here there there on the ground and again I hate to skip these parts this is a book you gotta get and I’ll talk about how to get it again because it’s not a normal book we’re informed that our objective was an enemy emergency airstrip close to a place called souk el Arba in tunisia along the way we were attacked by two me-109 but these were successfully shot down by our escorts of Spitfires boom thanks to the Americans easing their rule about smoking on aircraft I managed to feel more relaxed by puffing through half a dozen cigarettes so now they’re going for their jump by the way they’re going to jump into this into this emergency airstrip it was a three-hour journey and very hot and humid heat and we sat in the plane sweating like pigs singing songs and cracking jokes to try and hide our feelings chunky said well lofty that’s his nickname he brings up a couple times well lofty it won’t be long now see you in heaven you must be joking mate I replied tersely he’s got to be a damn good Jerry to catch up with me then the order was bellowed out action stations it made me shiver hook up I was sweating sweating like hell and fed a bill felt a bit weak at the knees I wondered out loud what sort of reception are we going to get what mate Crabtree asked oh nothing I muttered I hooked up my line with shaky fingers managing to endure ten minutes of standing while the plane came to in to drop us at the airfield out in the wild seventy miles from Tunis so the reason I put that part in there is just letting everybody know especially you young troopers out there that are gonna on hold the line you’re gonna be scared and even this guy that is a just a fundamental badass across the board his shaking fingers he’s sweating profusely he’s scared and by the way he’s hiding it to the best of his ability he’s keep me stifling that emotion continue on the jump masters piercing voice cut through the sound of the aircraft stand to the door I swallowed hard and prepared for the exit when the order to go rang in my ears I became a changed man it suddenly felt so much cooler being whisked about in the air all around me were hundreds of parachutes we were finally dropping into action there you go so you’re gonna be scared once you get in the action you’ll you’ll settle down and okay so now this is the land they move and now they get into a situation we were machine-gun constantly one minute we were in put in buses and the next taking cover once with Pat

Dolan and chunky I dashed for safety across an open ground and slid into a hundred feet slid into a hollow 100 from a dirt road as three small specks of Misha Schmitz came diving straight for us from 4,000 feet I lay on my stomach looking at the aircraft through my camouflage net scarf as they came in fast much closer now and three of them opened fire one concentrating on the road transport the other two on our men’s scrambling for cover on each side of the road bullets lashed the ground ten feet from us kicking up Fountains of dust bloody hell Pat that was close said chunky they circled and came in for another run this time really low only about fifty feet from the ground a couple of our a cap guns let fly Jerry let rip and muck seem to be flying everywhere mainly rock splinters and dust as one aircraft clattered by I saw quite plainly the pilot with a white scarf around his neck you fucking fool you might have killed us someone shouted and then let out a bellowing laugh amazingly after all that strafing no one was seriously hurt and only two of our vehicles were rendered unserviceable as time went on things continued to hot up and the buses were soon abandoned in favour of foot slogging so again this is like a horrifying thing to think about these Messerschmitt 109s coming down and strafing you with machine gun this pushing forward a little bit in the book there another situation then they turned towards us three Stuka dive-bombers approaching us at about five thousand feet the sky was clear and visibility was good it was most weird not knowing whether they were interested in us or just passing but they were interested in us alright the leading pilot made half a roll and nose down the preliminary commencing that inspiring Stuka dive angle of 85 degrees as it whined nearer I could see the evil gull wind shaped so clearly it seemed to be approaching me head-on and it was and I was at my wit’s end as to whether I should get out and run for it or stay safely put but possibly perish before I could make up my mind I saw four black dots moving away from the aircraft they were bombs seemingly aimed directly me their descent a company by a high-pitched scream I gripped my smock and braced myself the sides of my slit trench took shook and a shower of freshly dug soil cascaded over my face partly filling the trench Christ that’s closed I thought aloud the Delta to Stukas came in to repeat the treatment and there seemed to be a never-ending succession of bombs violently vibrating around then the drone aircraft drifted away and as and as black smoke billowed slowly skyward voices began to ring out as men sought to sought reassurance and that others were okay chunky was there on the edge of my trench asked me if I was alright putting on a brave front I said I was and I was except for a little excretion but then getting away with nothing more than a wet pants after that lot did not hurt my pride I didn’t tell the others though so that freaking bombs dropped right on top of him pissed his pants no factor happy to be alive continuing on we’d only been and this is again skipping we had only been in Tunisia for a few days in our bag of enemy killed or captured was fast increasing together with quite an assortment of armored cards motorbikes and weapons they get into some gun fights I found myself going on a volunteer burial party for men known to be lost or killed in action for any dead or wounded Parros that’s the parachute guys the Arabs could be the biggest menace as some of them would think nothing of stripping a corpse of its clothing and then just leaving it if a ring would not come off the finger with ease the finger might be severed to achieve their greedy end at times it was reported that wounded of both sides were mutilated by these scum and here’s out on these basically like on a little burial party after some of these battles had taken place we came upon two more Paris of one lying by a large rock a jagged cut with dried blood right across his temple the other just a few yards away looking a bloated blue-green I had seen dead soldiers before usually just after being killed but this retrieving of privates papers of private papers and dog tags from dead men was not in my book of training and I was lost for a moment wondering if I was alone in this

nightmare and then there’s a there’s a Padre with him a minister with him and he says the Padre broke the silence by inquiring any most serene voice now who have we here we buried those two side-by-side and then he goes forward here things were beginning to hot up now and we found ourselves taking part in some large-scale skirmishes with an enemy who is not going to take it all lying down you know he says hot up he doesn’t say heat up and he says that throughout the book some that’s why I probably put a little extra expression on it so people don’t think that I was miss miss reading it but he says things were beginning to hot up now maybe we’ll bring that back and here we go fast-forward a little bit I was just taking a position with the mortar when the CEO went or went round firing his pistol in the open side slots of the tanks and calling for the crews to come out so here’s the seal and there’s some tanks some enemy tanks and this guy’s approaching him with the pistol on reaching the third tank shots were fired back and he fell clutching his chest followed by his adjutant captain miles white Locke who was hit in the face amid the general din of battle I was too busy to get trying to get dug into the rocky soil to make out exactly what had happened but soon learned that the co had been severely wounded and major Pierson was now to take over command it was a great blow to me at this time also to hear the death of my old friend Stanley Juan ‘bless I was horrified by a different site an enormous brute of a pig munching away at a dead German soldier it seemed the pig had somehow come across the wine in this farm got filthy drunk and was eating everything such scenes became horribly familiar but my stomach gradually grew accustomed to them on Christmas Day 1942 I watched the rain fall as I tried to make myself a little more comfortable in my slit trench rain trickled down my neck my hands were wet and cold and if I had had a cigarette I would have enjoyed it my feet had been constantly wet for god knows how long and I was beginning to feel a teeny bit browned off when good news we were being withdrawn for a rest off we went to souk el Camas where I thoroughly enjoyed the luxury of a mobile bath unit delousing and refitting it was heaven but we soon returned returned to the grind once more so again I picked out some highlights of the first kind of action that they had but you you have to get the book to kind of follow along exactly what they’ve been through but they’d been through really tough fighting and then finally they get the they get the turn they get their word that they’re gonna take a little break which they do but you know like I said earlier it’s it’s a little break it’s not big and just like I talked about the times where you get a little reprieve from the cold wet miserable but then it’s time to go back in and that’s what you have to do and these guys do that going on here between the two that they end up in this spot between the two towns is a hill called jebel mah Mansoor the commanding height to the Pont du Tunis Road it’s 2,000 feet above sea level five miles around at the base and has an easiest climbing angle of 45 degrees also known by us as hill 648 it was occupied by crack German Afrika Corps and Alpine troops and it was our job to take it at all costs I thought this word would be a tough nut to crack but the men were determined to win through this through but the men were determined to win through and shift the enemy once and for all we checked our arms and ammunition and collected 48 hours rations so there’s this dominant high ground that they need to take and it’s got their Africa Corps who I talked about earlier it’s got the Alpine troops these are these are really good German troops and this point early in the war you know this is when this is when the German army the German military was what’s really really good I mean later in the war they were still good but they you know they suffered massive casualties and they started having like little you know younger troops inexperienced troop Hitler Youth you know kids that were 14 years old out on the front lines getting after it this is early in the war these are experienced troops you know these are the troops that were this is where you know the the Prussian roots of military genius are showing through and these troops and this is it this is this is these are tough tough and this is a

tough enemy so going on here we started off and it was quite a long way over rough on the uneven ground before we halted at the base of an ugly massive looking hill the usual advancement barred meant that preceded most attacks was not forthcoming on this occasion as we wanted to maintain the element of surprise this time Jerry be first to rock the boat as we waited at the base of the hill the sky now and again became bright with German night lights which one fired heavenward made the whole area quite luminous everyone froze until they fell to earth and safety returned once more in the form of semi-darkness in this waiting game I found my thoughts straying back to England what I could do for a couple fights pints of English beer there’s not till four o’clock in the next morning we ventured carefully toward forward through the undergrowth up went to more German night lights then two more then still more the place was illuminated like daylight they must got wind of us or smelt us we could determine the nationality of a soldier from at 50 feet if the wind was favourable so probably they could do the same from the top of the hill to machine guns began firing then more joined in as the place were alive with them and they slashed and ripped mercilessly at the brac and slicing the branches of trees as if an invisible sharp knife had done the job a bullet went through my trouser leg grazing my thigh but I didn’t think too much of it as I was still mobile German mortars started hitting the approach slope and yells a pain here and there told me to take more care the wine overhead was also warning that the enemy artillery was joining in as things hot it up with the occasional tracer bullet mixed in with the machine-gun fire I could almost feel the hot lead piercing my limbs it was certain I would not get away with it this time farther back things had gone wrong with our usual stalwart mules the amazing animals that carried our heavy gear where men could not set foot they didn’t appreciate the sudden shelling and bolted out of control major Clem’s B Thompson managed to round some of them up with the hemp of a French officer major Prix Oulu and then all hell seemed to be let loose our men are men yelling whoohoo Muhammad as the R and T companies went in with their bayonets unfortunately s company missed their correct route the tapes laid to assist their ascent had been damaged or cut by the enemy activity and at the count we were to find that they had suffered extremely heavy casualties and this chant of woohoo Mohammed this is throughout the time that they’re fighting in Africa and they do it when they get to Europe as well as this was something that the locals did and they started doing it too it’s kind of like the term gung ho which gung ho the the the Chinese turn which means work took actually a Chinese communist term which means that worked together and you know we use it and they started using it I believe he’s in the Korean War they started using that term but had been in World War two working with the Chinese anyway that must have been when it was must been war during World War two when they were working with nice and the Chinese would say gung ho work together mm-hmm kind of means getting fired up down well now yeah that’s how we use it Americans yeah we can take work together and turn it into get after the barrage we were set up against was intense and a ricocheting bullet or shell splinter often did as much damage or more than a straightforward burst of fire we could occasionally be lucky at one time an artillery shell failed to explode on impact with the ground and went on mercilessly ricocheting three times before coming to arrest with a dull plop but the bombardment was unrelenting and we had to work or and we had our work cut out here there was agonizing shrieks of pain right and left to me as I passed unrecognizable as I passed man unrecognizable soaked in blood being tended to by a splendid medics those unsung unarmed heroes Sam Koster and Frankie Thompson to reach the summit and searched out and dealt with the enemy with no ceremony whatsoever as Sam told me afterward Frankie was lunging and tossing men with his bayonet as though he as though they were sacks of straw Frankie was a big chap usually very friendly and quietly spoken but in action a different man picture that bayonet on your rifle and you’re throwing men off of it lunging and throwing men with a bayonet as if they were sacks of straw Frankie Thompson don’t play amid that turn all the turmoil and dead and wounded of both sides the curtain of fire had lifted and there was not a sound this is once they

get up to the hilltop looking around the hilltop only a few of our men could be seen moving among the twisted forms RR T and s companies had suffered very heavy casualties more than half of the battalion officers had been killed or wounded he as they kind of get settled on the top of the hill he that as they’re preparing for a counter-attack which they know the Germans are gonna do he gets sort of tasked with going around and helping and gather up the sick death or the wounded in the dead he goes on here setting about the job of collecting the wounded was something sickening as I gazed upon the scene of our once able and live comrades now quite still or with torn limbs I wondered whether there was any such thing as civilization a bit hard on my lip and went about my task with grim determination looking around for someone to help I noticed a lad who was in the same troop as me early in 1941 hello taffy and what have you been up to like a lift that’s that’s how he greets this guy Cheers lofty and like I said lofty is the nickname of reg Cheers lofty it’s nice to see someone alive he said wearily he was in a sitting position and it apparently been hit by no fewer than five bullets they were all clean flesh wounds in the calf thigh forearm and one through the apex of his penis and all rather uncomfortable but no broken bones he was pretty well saturated with blood but cheerful let’s try a fireman’s carry I suggested he’d had a shot of morphine so I didn’t think he feel he would feel too much anything to get away from here he said at that point Gerry started up again with artillery and mortars than a few snipers and to make it really interesting some suka dive-bombers Stuka dive-bombers too joined in the chorus let’s get going before it gets too hot I’ve got to get you on my back I said so once again this is you know is he’s saying this so kind of matter-of-factly he’s up there trying to rescue this wounded guy who’s obviously badly Muniz been shot five times and then he they start with artillery and mortars and then snipers and then Stuka dive-bombers that’s what’s going on and then he says he says let’s get going before it gets too hot it’s like it doesn’t get any hotter mmm I’ve got to get you on my back I said I managed to get him over my shoulder without causing too much pain and we started along the long trek through wooded country ravines and open wastes it was a ticklish and tender drop job but for two hours we struggled on I was sweating like two pigs he goes through a description of how hard it was to get this guy to an area where he could get some of the help that he needed once he gets that guy dropped off continuing on I joined a section of join us section comprising men from t and s companies they were mostly newcomers I wondered what had become of all the friends I had not seen since the attack started one of the lads told me that major can run con Ron had been killed and captain Miller – I felt so alone no disrespect to the reinforcements but the cream of our men were fast disappearing in the foothills of Tunisia Jerry was counter counter-attacking in earnest now and slinging everything at us in the way of explosives with batches of Stuka dive-bombers joining in at two hour intervals and making things even more deafening the muck was falling heavily and a splinter from a nearby bursting bomb slashed a vein in my right hand while another praying to my helmet nipping over rocks and creeping through Bracken and bush under a hail of bullets and screaming shells I’d been become I became cut off from the party of men I’d been attached to I was making good progress and stopping for a breather dropped into a small depression in the ground suddenly alone German pounced on me from the rear I realized what was happening instantly when I saw the field gray caught cuff of his uniform my Schmeisser which was out of ammunition was slung bandolier fashioned over my shoulder but I had an American 45 automatic call ready in my right hand I went down on one knee summoned up the unarmed combat I had been taught grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and heaved him with all my force over my head it was my turn now and I was not so gentle as he rolled on to his back I sprang and landed my fourteen stone weight feet first on his chest having the Colt which I had released dangled on its lanyard I started to

squeeze the trigger shouting you butcher bastard to his no no comrade no no no I pulled the trigger but it was empty I grabbed his rifle check that it was loaded and ordered him to his feet Danka Danka he kept saying hugging his chest as we moved off and with that he starts moving to get this prisoner back under control arriving back at Barada after the formality of delivering my prisoner into custody I rejoined the rest of the battalion we were in great need of rest and a refit and we were and were all sent by truck to a place called Tabor sook some 60 miles away while Bharata was handed over with thanks to the Americans we were very soon back with him great so they get a little breather we’re very soon back with a brigade this time in the jebel a Boyd area the brigades manpower was well down with the enemy and the enemy usually outnumbered us three to one Death Ridge as my pet one para as my first pair of position and Happy Valley was known also developed the name shell-shocked Ridge I tried closing my eyes at any given explosion it was a terrible feeling like waiting to be massacred the Germans started to mount an attack it was daylight and I could see motorized enemy units being dropped off at points as near as they dared to our positions three or four miles off in the direction of seda Jane they spread out an extended order and started toward us we were told to hold our fire until the last minute so the whole first Battalion lay very quiet and still enemy mortar saturated the area I felt the draft of an exploding shell which deaf in my left ear and left it ringing and at the same time propelled me to the bottom of my trench making me even wetter than I already was now the mortar broad had lifted him skipping ahead a little bit now the mortar barrage lifted and I could hear the silence of the Solothurn machine gun fire as it severed the undergrowth the enemy getting nearer all the time 60 yards 50 yards 40 yards I peeked gingerly over the edge of my hole in the ground 30 yards 20 yards then above the din the order was bellowed fire fire fire advance advance as we went out to meet them the battalion flung everything the enemy that it hung everything at the enemy that it could tommy guns Bren guns Sten guns cap captured Sullivan’s and smizes grenades English German Italian coupled with the cry of woohoo Mohammed gripping my rifle I advanced through the murderous fire the haze of smoke and the acrid smell of explosives every available man was on this one even the cooks before long the tables had turned in our favor with two dead Paras lying to my left I hopped over a dead German and came upon a wounded one a little to my right he was contemplating using a Luger pistol but I booted it from his hand and clumped him on the face with the butt of my rifle the whole episode was soon over with the enemy beating a hasty retreat and leaving a bag of captured clean-shaven German parachutists flown in direct from Germany to deal with us what a shock for them so that’s like just again whatever a couple paragraphs maybe two paragraphs and I mean it’s total insanity right the guys are 20 yards away before they get the the order not only to fire but to advance mm-hmm continuing on this is now they’re doing a coordinated attack while we pushed on with two para and three para brought up the rear the British 139th Brigade attacked on a right in time the pimple well does the name of like a little Knoll was retaken and our brigade proceeded to press home the final assault amidst devastating artillery and mortar fire from both sides tragically we found that we had gone a little too fast for our 25 pounders to increase their range quickly enough and we suffered heavy casualties from our own fire at daylight I passed Jacque Pearson crouched by a rock bellowing into a field radio and none too pleased with the person on the other end what do you think you’re doing here Ord you’re killing all my bloody men so little horrible blue-on-blue scenario happening man everything but

everything seemed to be in our favor now even the weather was kinder and we must have advanced about eight miles under a curtain of continuous fire both until both Italians and Germany were ready to give in and we’re running to be captured so think about this scene with just massive fire and you’re advancing onto that fire for eight miles they get up there they’re doing this they’re continuing to advance at this part and here Messerschmitts buzz the area spraying the ground spasmodically and causing those nearest to drop quickly into convenient holes we pushed on at a steady pace past demolition guns past demolished guns and supply dumps the air stinking with appalling butchery I glanced instinctively towards a shell burst 50 yards away as I watched its jet black smoke belch skyward my gaze was transfixed by something odd on the ground I wondered if it could be a human drawing nearer I saw that it was the roasted body of a man in the sitting position he must have been driving a Scout car or light vehicle as there were small pieces of charred twisted metal spread 50 feet around with dismembered arms and legs torn and blood-soaked uniforms littering the Black scorched soil the aroma was diabolical someone accidentally brushed the sitting form on passing and the body simply disintegrated with a sickly sound fast-forwarding a bit the smell of burnt flesh coat floated in my direction and that quickly and I quickened my pace to get clear of it plotting on in these awful humid and dusty conditions I think I felt almost immune to weariness and the shocking sights of war nothing seemed to be able to stop us now and this is again you got to read this book but this sort of concludes this section the first parachute Brigade group was not destined to take part in the final push to Tunis our role in the campaign had come to an end and we were withdrawn from the line so ending five months hard slog and again that we were just burning through this book and I’m skipping so many sections this stuff is fun this is five months this is half a year just about of this type of fighting originally trained as shock troops in Tunisia after the initial parachute assaults we had served as plain infantry but that’s just the way the wind blew for us medals were plentiful and all ranks had earned them eight distinguished service orders 15 military crosses nine distinguished Conduct medals 22 military medals three crawe two gear and one Legion to honour in their own way even our German adversaries had recognized the brigades fighting ability by naming us the Red Devils for those who were there though the price of success was unspeakably high we had lost more than 1,700 men killed wounded or missing so again I hate to burn through five months of insane fighting and and I’ll take a day get at reg right now like he’s so matter-of-fact about stuff and he only hits on the high points I’m hitting on the high points of the high points right just insane insane to think about that for five months so from there they’re transported from Tunisia back to Algeria and they spend time training for a drop into Sicily a parachute drop innocently which once again you fight in Africa looked it’s really tough conditions in Africa now you’re getting closer to Germany like you’re going into going into Sicily you know what’s waiting for you it was hoped that if Sicily could be taken it might prompt an Italian surrender a large proportion of my battalion including myself now went down with dysentery it goes into talking about a lot of that this is no this is

just it’s like no nothing’s easy between exercises we a claw my Akamai’s dour reinforcements to use every do use every type of enemy weapons including Schmeisser automatic which we found superior to our own Sten gun so now they start preparing for this mission in Sicily there were three bridges to take in Sicily and the password for them was to be Desert Rats with the reply kill Italians as the plane took off chunky said well this is it our second operation I tried to act normally but could feel the sweat running down my cheek so once again he’s stifling some emotions and here they go getting on this getting ready to do this job and this is just it’s just crazy as we drew nearer to our objective and at a thousand feet I could see the flak and tracer zipping past the wing of the aircraft for 30 minutes we dodged everything they threw at us but it was a tense half-hour as we were helpless to do anything so you’re in an airplane you’re getting ready to parachute and there’s flak bombs exploding around you trying to take down your house your aircraft and tracer fires zipping but you know how much protection an aircraft gives you from tracer fire from machine-gun fire zero what’s flak so it’s anti-aircraft they set it for a certain altitude it goes up in the air and then just blows up in hopes that some of that shrapnel will hit the aircraft and damage the aircraft and take them down yeah so flak jacket so flat actually flak is just little chunks of this fragmentation right chunks of metal that that come off of explosive device like a grenade or a artillery round mmm that’s gonna like on purpose yes perfect that’s what it for and then a flak jacket is to protect you from fuck gotcha in the old days like the flak term flak jacket the flak jacket would protect you from flak it wouldn’t protect you from a bullet right because flak isn’t going as fast as a bullet is so like an old-school Vietnam flak jacket yeah it wouldn’t stop bullets but it would protect you from flock yeah like a motorcycle jacket kind of thing like it’s like it’ll it’ll protect you but not from the real deal yeah yeah so even so even nowadays right the expression like don’t give me any flak mm-hmm it’s like kind of that yeah exactly yeah exactly what it is so these guys are up there and like he says helpless and by the way this is a half an hour of this suddenly we were given continue on suddenly we were given the order to hook up I did so unweighted the engines cut back on the approach to our drop zone we descended to around 600 feet with all sorts of rubbish whizzing by and the plane pitching and tossing like a toy in a vast then there came a terrific explosion as our tail was hit the order jump man jump screamed in my ears and I tumbled through the doorway into the void below so the aircraft finally takes a devastating hit he doesn’t he doesn’t mention whether the aircraft made it or not he just says that it you know the tail was hit hard I can’t imagine that’s super easy to fly a plane once the tails been blown off now he gets on the ground again fast forward a little bit on the ground about 300 yards in my left was the main coastal road to the town of Canton Catania an enemy traffic was in tremendous confusion to my rear I could hear Italian voices and about a hundred yards to my right Germans rapping out orders then down the road came a 15 strong German patrol they could have been parachutist judging by their dress and headgear fortunately I was not alone when they were just a few yards off and we opened up on them there were some grunts groans and sickly yelps then silence we slipped on in the direction of the bridge around which our men were by now silently killing harassing and panicking the German and Italian defenders at night small battles raged unceasingly and we were pinned down for a long time by mortar fire when daylight broke though I saw the for the first time the vast mountain scenery at the base of which we had been fighting again I’m just jumping through stuff then the Sun starts to come up it became warm and then the heat became intense a typical you’re never you can never just be comfortable it’s always like freezing cold or too hot you would he had 15 minutes where it was warm and then they were too hot there had been no firing

for some time and I realized that the enemy was no longer with us scanning the countryside I could see burnt-out cars Italian tanks and ammunition dumps the smell of burnt bodies and oil filled the air I was glad to move on such a confusion of our Brigade such was the confusion of our Brigade drop that come daylight three men from the men from three para discovered they spent all night fighting alongside the men of first pair without realizing it at the bridge it was clear that there had been a fierce battle the pillboxes had been rushed and dealt with ruthlessly here the brigade mustered aprox me a hundred and eighty men but the three-inch mortars and ammunition had not arrived and there was a lack of communication with outside units wireless sets those our radios had been either incorrectly netted back in Africa were damaged on the landing or just did not arrive we learned that German parachutists from the third Regiment of the 1st fallschirmjaeger division had dropped simultaneously on our drop zone the previous night so we must have indeed have brushed shoulders with them when we came upon that fifty man Patrol how crazy is that you’re jumping into a drop zone and the Germans are jumping in there too and then he goes as things start to escalate he’s talking about how hot it was like hot as in not heat temperature but hot as an enemy action little wonder things were so warm the area within an approximately 2 mile radius of the bridge was festooned with 88 millimeter and 20 mm 20 millimeter guns pill boxes machine gun pits and also a few coastal guns and we were engaging with crack German tooth troops including paratroops they presented a good target whenever they got too near the bridge you could not miss but word run around that our supply of ammunition was now drastically low conserve ammunition and fire only when you are absolutely certain certain of a kill was the order but due in due course members of the 1st and 3rd para battalions at the northern end of the bridge withdrew to join us at the southern end the enemy was getting harder to ward off as tanks and tanks began to appear now we got tanks enemy tanks on the scene we were using captured Italian 40 millimeter anti-tank gun along with our own anti-tank gun the battle worked up to a terrific climax the Germans were sending their best troops in an effort to shift us their paratroopers probing for weak spots and allowing no respite food was in our haversacks but there was no time to get it it was fire fire and keep on firing finally there was a lull at about 1830 or soon after giving us a chance to take stock maybe the Germans wanted to regroup I checked my ammunition and found only four rounds left plus one in the chamber at 19:30 we were ordered to withdraw in order to avoid capture and go in small groups we made it off in a westerly direction toward the Gorna Lulu the Gorna lunga river if we could use the river and the road running parallel to it as a guide for a couple of miles perhaps then we could be clear of any enemy concentrated attack so these guys are basically bagging out of the area and as they’re doing they’re doing it in small groups at one point as darkness fell we came upon a deserted farmhouse but decided not to enter as it was quite near an abandoned flat gun pit we thought both sides would be we thought both could be booby-trapped it was approximately 0-200 by now we were very tired and hungry we dozed off in an orchard 20 feet from the edge each man at the base of a different tree so as to be less conspicuous so they spend the night in this orchard and then they set off once again we saw no more of the enemy via Lentini we reached Augusta some 50 miles from prema soul bridge finding the town in our hands it was a great sight to see so many of our own troops and tanks and so they continued on reaching Syracuse without mishap on this on the 17th of July just four days after dropping and assisity we soon set sail arriving back at seuss in Tunisia on the 20th our 1st parachute Brigade group had not only suffered heavily in the North African campaign but in Sicily to where we had lost a further 300 men killed wounded or missing it was time to rest refit regroup and reorganized and we also got to relax so I mean this this is a group

of men that are now just hardened combat vets and yet there’s no war there’s no end to this insight right I mean there’s no end yeah I guess if you looked at it from a strategic perspective knowing what we know today maybe you could say there’s an end in sight but if you know you’re barely surviving this though you’re barely surviving it you know what the end is I mean you have to accept what the end is probably gonna be the end is probably gonna be you’re not gonna live in early November we were told that the whole first Airborne Division was returning to England and the first parachute Brigade would leave from Algiers at the end of the month on the 29th of November we shipped out of Algiers on the SS Samaria happily heading for Liverpool now one particular chap made a popular appearance Peter the battalions unofficial unofficial lovable dog Peter liked water and jumping from planes and was the only parachute dog on record at first he was owned by a lad named topper Brown and rumor had it they both escaped from Dunkirk in 1940 Peter was a marvel and could do almost anything asked of him never forgetting a trick put a stone on his nose and back away and he’d remain motionless but at a given command he would toss and catch that stone water was his God there had been static tanks eight feet deep at Bulford into which a stone could be thrown Peter would retrieve it in no time and then sit patiently waiting for another run when we had set off from North Africa in October the previous year he had been smuggled aboard the Arundel castle everyone helping in the scheming to get him aboard and keep him fed exercised and comfortable he’d been left behind in Algeria in the good care of the cooks and the rear-echelon party when we went on to meet the enemy in Tunisia where topper Brown was taken prisoner and sadly never heard of again corporal Jim Nash the battalion hairdresser of our company then took care of Peter and is it was at mate Moore in Algeria during training for the Sicily operation that Jim took him up for his first jump from an aircraft a special bag had been made and was fixed to Jim’s front with a hole at the top for Peters head to protrude they made a perfect landing Peter running off as happy as their a wagging his tail after various other escapades Peter returned to Algiers and was smuggled aboard the San Maria where he was having a great time until the locker door of his hiding place was accidentally left unsecured during one of our boat drill procedures and he ventured out on his own he was found wandering below by the ship’s officer who ordered him to be put over the side we were just two days out from Liverpool the men were furious and it was just as well that the officer responsible could not be found as a roving band of justice-seeking Paras could not have been expected to be lenient as far as Peter was concerned he had such enthusiasm from water that maybe he was fitting to end up in a sea grave but we felt his loss I don’t mind admitting that we fighting men had a soft side even after all we’d seen and done perhaps especially after all we’d seen and done I wrote Peter a poem entitled epitaph to a friend it’s last verse as follows Peter made us happy and carefree he had no military apparel he made just two jumps his grave is the sea his wings truly earned and the name red devil kind of a theme that we see come up from time to time the attachment that soldiers can get to these to these dogs that they they come across at some point and unfortunately a recurring theme is some rear-echelon person that doesn’t understand killing those animals and I also thought it was you know it’s interesting that line I don’t mind admitting that we fighting men had a soft side even after all we’d seen and done and he says perhaps especially

after all we’d seen and done that’s something that is I mean I think that’s absolutely true you know you there’s no better there’s the sunset looks a million times infinitely better when you know the sacrifices that have been made to see the sunset the white bedsheets that you get to sleep on you appreciate infinitely more when you’ve been sleeping in the dirt for six months and it goes on and on and on and so when you see when you see that depravity that that human beings are capable of well that can actually expose the fact that you really can cherish a innocent innocent little dog and these guys arrived back home get stationed the 1st battalion gets stationed at Ingram’s Thorpe castle and at this point they know something really big is in the air and he says here in August men coming from our old training area of tatton park reported seeing thousands of Tanks they’re like a giant tank park sure enough in mid-september we were finally setting off somewhere I checked over my gear one gamin bomb 2.36 hand grenades combined pick and shovel webbing equipment with small pack 2 ammunition pouches Amanda Lear with 303 ammunition water bottle mess tin iron ration field dressing camouflage net scarf triangle shape error recognition bright yellow silk scarf tied around the neck for ready for instant use rifle and an escape kit comprising of a silk map of Europe a small button compass and a strong file the size of a nail file that was about it except for a kit bag strapped to the leg and parachute Plus Mae West’s life jacket in case we finished up in the drink I felt like an overdue pregnant hippo and didn’t know where to put anything else though still I had it 200 cigarettes 2 bars of chocolate and some boiled sweets it’s interesting the the yellow scarf for recognition and he specifically says tied around the neck for instant use and it’s interesting we kind of I always carried one the basic reason why I always cared was cuz I was a radio man when I was a young enlisted guy and I used it at times I had learned the value of it signaling helicopters and signaling boats in the jungle like if you and the weird thing is you when you’re in a let’s say you’re in a boat in a river along the jungle there’s so much jungle to look at that it’s really hard to see someone waving their hand it seems so obvious when you’re waving at some waving at a boat hey I’m over here first of all they can’t hear you because they’re running engines shooting machine guns they can’t hear you and second because they’re looking at whatever quarter mile or half a mile of green bush they got this whole thing to try and find you and you’re in a green camouflage uniform and you’re waving your honor they can’t see you so you need I would always have a aircraft panels what we call them aircraft signaling panel which is just bright fluorescent orange and I could whip that thing out really quickly and then it then you become a lot more visible same thing with an aircraft overhead well in Ramadi it didn’t take long before everyone was carrying that because and they were carrying big ones too like I was a platoon or like an element that was going in a building would have a big giant one that you could hang out a window everyone we are here hey friendly forces we are here hey so even this guy world war two that bright yellow silk scarf important signaling device at the hand he says I wondered how the rest of the men were going to fare on this hop I was just getting used to the new faces like Frankie Panzer Mainzer bill sill Barry Terry brace dick Bing Lee dolly gray major Perrin Brown Sid Oxley gov Beach with his top hat the Germans will surrender in surprise if he takes them with that I fought Joe McCready Pattie McCormick and Captain Joe Gardner I mean just I just had to read those names for two reasons number one because they sound like the best bunch of characters you could ever hang around and also so everyone remembers that all these people that were talking about there are all people unfortunately sergeant busty

Everett had fallen ill and died at born we were from all over the country and Beyond and on the whole one big happy family it was daylight when we clambered into trucks and headed toward the aerodrome at Barkston Hall everyone was tense but ready to go come what may he goes on here our objective was to capture and hold the bridge straddling the Rhine at Arnhem my first parachute battalion was to seize the high ground to the north our escorting typhoon Spitfire and Mustang fighters were weaving between the dakotas and gliders as we crossed the English Channel tension began to mount in my plane we approached land on the other side and could see the area that had been flooded to try and stop or impede the advance of our land forces I was admiring the landscape when the order rang out action stations hookup green light on go being number 13 I had a few long seconds to wait as I shuffled forward then I felt a slight pat on my parachute back and again found myself tumbling out of the doorway into that familiar open void my parachute opened once more obediently and I drifted down to earth without difficulty after a good three-point landing I was now an enemy occupied territory except for the occasional machine-gun fire and some blasting from enemy machine-gun emplacements the landing had been unopposed and the whole dropping North Zone north of keys ylim was packed with gliders and discarded parachutes everyone soon collected themselves and rendezvous at their perspective points the time was just after 1500 on Sunday the 17th of September 1944 the time was just after 1500 on Sunday the 17th of September 1944 leaving the drop zone we made our way quickly along the track running alongside the wood west of wolfies and south of the railway the end of the track lined up with a road running parallel to the railway turning right here and then over the road onto the railway sidewalk we nosed our way toward wolfies station suddenly there was a loud explosion up ahead and some machine-gun fire and now this is when things start to get hot our company still upfront became engaged in a fierce battle facing armored cars mortars and machine guns it was getting dark now the whole battalion laid doggo for a while to try to avoid further detection we lay up in the woods for some hours pushing on occasionally but cautiously at one point in time unbeknown to the enemy they completely surrounded us in the semi door so here they are they’re kind of like laid up they’re not trying to move too much in the semi dark we passed down winding lanes this is when they start pushing forward through the woods and along the south side of the road we were now about five miles from the Arnhem bridge and so far luck had been with us at about two o’clock in the morning there were sounds of battle ahead apparently coming from an area northeast north northeast of lincoln beak on arriving there at about zero 500 we found that the leading companies had met fierce opposition and it suffered heavily then with no reason given at the time the original plan to go for the high ground north of Arnhem was changed and we instead turned south towards Marian Dahl an austere beak some two miles from the bridge at zero 600 we entered austere beak where we met members of the Dutch underground movement who showed us the easiest route to the bridge we were moving cautiously in a file ready for action and everything seemed a little bit too quiet at zero 6:30 as dawn was breaking we moved up into a built-up area and then it started the enemy had been busy overnight preparing gun emplacements taking up positions at vantage points posting snipers and concealing tanks and SP guns German gunfire shattered the peace and I darted for cover and took up position in the neatly laid out garden of a nearby house more firing came from the house direction with two other men I ran around the back of the house and fired his two Germans in rubbery they must have had their chips with two other men I round around the back of the house and fired at two Germans in the shrubbery they must have had their chips amid the smoke and fire of machine guns SP guns and six-barreled

mortars the battle ranged the battle raged and Bilt’s to such a pitch that I became quite accustomed to it and went about the task as if on street fighting training back at home we hadn’t eaten since leaving England but I was too busy to be hungry casualties were mounting mounting incredibly fast and in every direction I could see motionless forms of our men cut down in their tracks progress was slow and the battle became more intense as the bridge loomed gradually nearer with two other chaps I did not know I chased after some Germans in a house we threw a grenade in and dash to the door to finish them off with Stan and rifle looking around for any more of the enemy we were belt that we belted to the rear of the house I tripped over a broken fence and went sprawling as I scrambled up I heard a close whine and recognized which I recognized was a mortar I died for cover by a low wall and the bomb landed very near near enough to feel the draught snipers were taking potshots at us dodging and weaving through gardens and backyards I came to stop an opposite a factory held up by held up by a heavy mortar machine-gun fire yet again I threw myself into the ground it was absolute bedlam with the slicing sound of German southern look so so low their guns their bullets cutting the air in every direction and the repeated stalk of mortars followed by the wine and sound of hot shrapnel hitting the rooftops a small lump of shrapnel hit my helmet sounding like a pea on a drum in the heat of battle men were shouting curses lobbing grenades through open doors and windows and following up with shrieks of contempt for the enemy and the cry of woohoo Mohammed casualties really began mounting there were groans from men who had been hit motionless perilous motionless Paris lay in the road and slumped over walls I saw a pair of feet protruding from a garden gateway one boat one boot blown off but leaving the foot complete such as the magical phenomenon of war the German firepower was murderous and all I could do was keep alert for the sound of English I had a horrible feeling that my battalion was being cut to ribbons going forward a little bit there was a heck of a battle going on inside the factory and men were scrapping furiously with grenade stands colt handguns and fighting knives the wall of the house opposite received a blast of machine-gun fire coming from behind me I was about to move off in pursuit of a German in the garden of a terrorists house on the on my right when I felt an explosion just beneath me and a sharp pain reeling over and looking down I saw that the lower part of my right leg was in a most unusual position and blood was oozing out steady and fast I shouted for help and to Paris dashed up quickly and rendered first aid one of them sergeant Nobby Hall called for medical orderly I was worried but felt like a nuisance as everyone was busy enough already without being lumbered with me I was placed on a way I was placed on a stretcher and carried into a wooden shed a few yards away where medics cut the boot off of the foot of my shattered leg smashed by an explosive bullet it looked awful but strangely I didn’t feel much pain they tore open the field dressing I had carried for so long in different parts of the world but never previously needed and carried out a quick but thorough job pandemonium was raining outside as machine so at this point obviously he’s been wounded he’s been wounded really bad his leg is in very rough shape he can’t walk pandamonium was raining outside his machine gunfire echoed around the built-up area a mortar bomb landed quite near but the medic administrating a morphine injection kept a steady hand as if he were in the safety of a back in England so the talk about detaching the medic is just cool and calm while the other medic hunted around for suitable makeshift splint a young Dutch girl appeared from nowhere and offered me a welcome cup of water I was feeling cold and clammy and her helpful is a great comfort as was the morphine which soon began to take effect there was another series of explosions just ahead a clear signal to get moving and I was carried cautiously to the corner of a house next to the road I had come down only a short while ago everyone was scattered everyone was scattered and there were dead Parra’s in the road on the sidewalk and in the gardens snipers were busy and our men were bent on winkling them out there was a thud a whizz and a bark of an exploding shell followed by another and

another all bursting on the rooftops of houses 30 yards back then something flashed from an upper window only 20 yards ahead and bullets splattered on the wall above us the medic sent me down to wait for an opportune moment to get across the road and I saw four pairs pressed themselves into the wall of the building opposite as they worked their way toward that flash went under the window the leading para kicked the door out and out of the window came a potato masher which he immediately picked up and threw back in that potato masher is the classic German grenade with a long handle on it which they did so that they could throw grenades as far as as the Americans could because we’ve played baseball and they play soccer and you don’t kick you don’t kick grenades you have to fit all the leading para kicked the door and out of the window came a potato masher which he immediately picked up and threw back in accompanied by a Mills bomb which is their grenade phone by another man there was quite some explosion following which four pairs entered the building sprang Sten gunfire in the room and threw up through the floorboards a trick we had learned in training I was more than relieved to get out of the line of fire was carried into the relative safety of a garden wall as I laid helpless behind the wall I had a clear view of the clatter and confusion of the battle and the threw the demolished gateway so he goes on here obviously I’m not covering the whole book but covering some sections of things that are unfolding I was moved with a number of other wounded men to a nearby barn where I spent a fairly easy night thanks to the powerful effects of the morphine injection I had been given early the following morning all was reasonably quiet in the immediate vicinity although I could hear the sound of battle not far off looking around the barn I didn’t recognize anyone from my first battalion and those men I spoke to did not want to know they were either too preoccupied with their wounds or unable to talk at all some of them looked as though they had just lived through a nightmare which I would say is an accurate statement and again it’s like everything that he’s talking about is just you know complete mayhem combat that’s what he’s talking about it’s just totally out of control and finally it settles down a little bit for that night and it sounds like maybe the probably the Brits at that point had done a good counter attack maybe established a perimeter unfortunately doesn’t last at about zero 702 medics came up to me and said that my turn was next this is desert trying to extract him lifting the stretcher they carried me to a waiting Jeep it’s engine running there were four walking wounded in the back seat and I was strapped to the front of the bonnet alongside another chap who was already strapped in on the on the side the windscreen he forced a grin what’s yours I asked they got me in the guts he said bluntly that’s a nasty place to cop it I thought feeling sorry for him a short stocky medic jumped in the driver’s seat saying hold tight in the back and don’t worry you two in front on the bonnet we might have a rough ride and it will be a bit fast what do you even do I mean they take you they put you on a stretcher on the hood of a freaking Jeep and they’re like ha and the medic says hold on to the guys in the back and says hey up front don’t they’ve got him strapped down there’s nothing they can do they can’t move I wouldn’t want to do that on a Tuesday afternoon know you know going like to the market mmm I mean imagine I’m like hey I call to take you to the market I put you on the hood of my car strap you down and say hey it’s gonna be a little rough after a fast and fast forward after a fast bumpy journey the Jeep tour through rooster beak past the divisional headquarters at the hartenstein Hotel and pulled up sharply in the drive of the tafelberg hotel a few hundred yards farther on airborne medics quickly unstrapped me and took me inside setting me down on the floor opposite a window in the entrance hall the hotel tafelberg had been German Field Marshal Walther model Modell’s headquarters prior to our arrival the previous Sunday and we were now using it as an improvised military hospital it must have taken a few knocks as it was now in absolute shambles as usual the British Tommy had managed to brew up even in such hazardous conditions and I was given a mug of tea and a bar of chocolate my first food since leaving England two days earlier I had not touched my ghastly iron ration I tried to sleep but with the interruption of shelling and mortar fire prevented that when night fell I just long for daylight to come again I hated the nights it was bad enough to be meeting angry Germans in battle but it was worse

to do so while I slept the next day Wednesday I was grateful to be taken into the operating room ingeniously rigged up in the kitchen of the hotel so he gets some you get some preliminary work done on his wounds and of course the Brits I know I’ve talked about this they like to grow up their tea and they will do it that’s how they roll I was returned to the entrance hall where the din of battle and bullets hitting the wall outside made me look out I was surprised to be is to see a German wandering about pictures you’re in a hospital you just got like the shrapnel cut out your leg they said take and set you down and now you’re watching the battle out a window and you see a German wandering around he took up a stand positioned by the door and then began pacing up and down just then there was a loud Crump outside and debris plaster and glass fell all around I looked to see where that one landed and the German I’d seen outside only a few moments ago was now sprawled out killed I presume by one of his own mortar bombs but that should tell you what a situation there and there’s Germans outside the window walking around I was set down at the head of the stairs to my right lay a glider pilot who had a face and arm injury I mean all the wounded who covered most of the landing area came a wounded man walking our eyes met did I know him I hardly knew anyone they were unrecognizable clotted up with blood and dirt then up the stairs belted some combat Paris and we asked them how it was going and I had I had to capture this because this is just as British as it gets so these there’s like we just said there’s Germans walking around outside this place is total shambles and they see a couple pairs and he says hey how’s it going and the one of the pair has answers not too bad not too bad could be a bit better before disappearing back down again that’s like that’s an olfactory response yeah oh by the way we’re about to get over on but not too bad nothing could be better but you know we got this fast forward a little bit a wounded man with his Arminius thing approached me with an inquiring look what unit Chum he asked almost in a whisper first Parra I replied I’m in a shower of dust and smoke as yet another shell exploded very near he winced and withdrew from the direction of the shell blast just as we felt the ominous vacuum of warm air he was almost incoherent as he glanced around the terrible scene of man-made destruction I just left the bridge he said there was quite a pause what’s it like there I asked he swung around glaring at me as if the hole was my fault his eyes hard staring and red with fatigue the poor fellow had been hit through with something bad I offered him a cigarette and with a trembling hand he took one it hung limp in his grasp Thanks I don’t really smoke but I’ll have one he said then he answered it was bloody hell their tanks belching fire blokes getting killed left and right the carnage was terrible he paused as a medic a passed by with a man clutching his side and hobbling on one leg a bloody congealed bandage wrapped around the stump where once had been a foot my lad drew hard on the cigarette and coughing continued there were hordes of them it went on for hours attacking shelling then the bastard start started burning us out my two mates got killed the twisted and broken bodies of our men were strewn everywhere he leaned back against the wall looking a little more at ease I don’t know but I think it may have been the first I may have been the first person he had spelt out his experiences to Vader he told me that it was his first time in action I thought he had ridden it bloody well the next few days seemed to drag on forever with my leg giving me much more pain now than ahead during the first 24 hours after I was hit and so obviously these guys around rallied up and their suffering but it doesn’t mean that they’re safe continuing on there are so many shells landing in on and around the building plus the occasional burst of machine-gun fire splattering the inner walls that I imagined we must be slap-bang and in the frontline or somewhere in no-man’s land and by the way that’s the field hospital there were hundreds of wounded in enemy included as well as Dutch people caught up in the fight so many that some got moved to the hotels annex across the driveway and am any man with flesh wounds or injuries that did not hinder the use of a firearm was ordered outside to fight so if you could fight you now it’s time he was now the 23rd of September and I was lying

still at the head of the broad stairway and there was motion down below those ruddy Huns again said the glider pilot there was a shuffling and German orders were being wrapped out then some SS troops dashed up the stairs a sinister looking type about 20 years old led the way and was coming right out coming right at me I found myself looking straight down the barrel of his Schmeisser his trigger finger shaking I didn’t bat an eyelid I just did not want to upset him and give him a cause to let rip he was glaring at me with red beady eyes Christ this is it I thought I had heard of other wounded being shot up but my luck was in and he passed me by he and two other SS men had a good look around and took and then took up firing positions at windows in rooms leading off the landing as they started to fire out Colonel Warwick dashed up the stairs swearing and rebuking them for firing from a clearly marked Red Cross building discipline took over they looked defiant and sullen but with fingers handling their automatics hesitantly they reluctantly obeyed the officers command and stopped firing so as I talked about earlier with the and clearly these are some Germans that have respect for the law of armed conflict and they there which let’s just start with this we’re in the hospital building and now he got the the Germans in the building using it as a firing position I don’t even know what to say about this like what is that even how do you even translate that into into reality you’re wounded you’re your hospital is getting mortared and machine-gunned and then there’s German enemy soldiers in your building firing from inside your building walking around looking at you oh and he comments about this it was most strange to have enemy in the building one minute only being replaced by your own combat men the next so that’s his statement about it is that yellow strange I wondered how the rest of my first pair of battalion were doing right from the Sunday night our our company it had a tough time losing half of its men in the bee Lehrer doodle area then forty men of six splatoon s company were killed in two minutes on the approach to Arnhem Arnhem and in the den brink st Elizabeth’s Hospital and factory area the rest of the battalion was badly mauled in the midst of it all father Benson a Roman Catholic priest was busy making his rounds and answering urgent calls one man so constantly needed things began to get on my nerves that morning which is kind of interesting cuz he’s been through all this stuff he’s wounded he’s surrounded by the enemy he’s on his whatever however many hundreds of days in close combat that he’s been in over the past few years mhm and now that he’s wounded and surrounded and his men screaming and dying all around him things are getting on his nerves a little bit this morning yeah make sense that’s that’s what that’s what reg is up to so things began to get on my nerves that morning what with the continuous din of battle outside of my leg getting more painful through lack of proper medical attention I called for father Benson to offer a few words of comfort so he came and put me at my ease later he was to his wounded by tank fire into the building I’m sorry to say that he died from those wounds and was buried in the grounds of st. Elizabeth’s Hospital on the following day the disposition was frightening once again understatement the British understatement because as far as I’m concerned everything up to this point is completely horrifying on the following day the disposition was frightening our men were still doing their damndest but the Germans were slowly closing in very slowly marked you for they lost heavily and had to fight for every inch of the bloody ground they got there with things getting hotter still I was moved again to what was thought to be a safer spot just to the other side and along the landing area suddenly there was an almighty explosion in the room on my right men were already wounded once twice or hit again and some were killed there were piteous cries coming from that room it was at this time that Major John Wadi of the 156 parachute battalion who had started his parachute days in India when the battalion was first formed was wounded again and two english medics and a dutch nurse were killed a medic now came out cradling a form in his arms the chappy

carried could have been dead or unconscious he was covered in blood and his arm was shattered and hung pathetically by his side his left leg bandaged from his first wounding Christ I wish I were outside there was another resounding crash of bombs followed by curses perhaps I was better off in here it was bloody awful for everyone everywhere outside the situation was getting completely out of hand further enemy reinforcements were mustering around the perimeter in the form of powerfully armed tanks from the SS Panzer divisions with long barreled high explosives and armor-piercing shells the passage where I lay ran from front to rear the hotel and I was facing the rear with a grandstand view of the battle through a gaping hole in the wall where once there had been a window now and again one of them are our men would break cover to stock the enemy and then the enemy would repeat the process with the multiple accompaniment of shell bursts tank fire machine-gun fire curses and yelps of pain I heard the ominous sound of an approaching tank I couldn’t see it but the squeaking of its caterpillar wheels grew even louder then it came into view it’s great gun traversing from right to left picking its way through the trees it stopped for a few minutes to feel its way and then the gun barked out sending a shell across my front to an unseen target the other wounded were lying huddled together trying to afford each other protection the floor was littered with debris blood and glass and there was an incessant whine and explosion of mortar bombs together with the shriek and crash of artillery vibrating the very foundations of the building which I thought would at some point tumble down I don’t know what time it was when the shelling and gunfire stopped but after a din of the last six days it felt very strange to suddenly be so much quieter there was still spasmodic firing in the distance and a little shelling but nothing to worry about we began to converse more freely gone on strike Jerry one man almost sounded except that his had half his mouth bandaged from a shell splinter wound nah he’s packed up as Jerry and buggered off a cockney put in the glider pilot was more cautious crafty sod is the Hun he’s got something up his sleeve then I saw men being carried downstairs with great activity going on outside but not of battle two medics picked me up both of them silent and not looking too pleased where to now I asked the Elizabeth Hospital one told me the enemy had overrun us and was calling the shots so the Germans were now in control he gets taken outside outside was a ghastly sight with the fallen dead of both our sides lying where they had gone down British and German medical orderlies were putting the wounded into jeeps and various other vehicles including two small vans improvised as makeshift ambulances three of us stretcher cases were loaded into a small open German lorry with shallow sides which would prevent us from bouncing off in transit there was just enough room for five walking wounded now they’re on this Drive we all had shattered bones of some sort which made us cry out in pain during the rough ride in this antic integrated lorry and I was still more than pleased when it finally came to a standstill at journey’s end at the hospital there had clearly been heavy fighting and spent cartridges could see be seen littering the floor and entranceway I heard the familiar voice of a friend what the hell are you doing on that stretcher scrounging for a lift I went to answer but nothing came out can you imagine you go to a hospital and the floors got bullet casings all over it word got around that the whole show was over and I began to wonder what really went wrong the battle had been lost but it had been some fight as mortar sergeant dick winning him later Reilly remarked we may have lost the battle at Arnhem but we did come in second it should be noted that there had not only been a great loss of light life in this battle but also massive local destruction with one or one in four houses totally destroyed in most of the remainder badly damaged and so again you

know I talked about the seeing the different sides of the Germans and you know we already saw some of the Germans the prisoners being sickened by what the kind of civilian casualties were taking places they evacuated Dunkirk the the Germans that were firing inside the hospital and then when they get told by an unarmed you know leader hey get out of here there’s okay fine they’re grumpy but they leave just the fact that these the patients are the the wounded are getting treated actually pretty well so they end up in this sort of makeshift hospital a South African orthopedic surgeon captain alexander Lippmann Kessel was going to see me he commanded one of the surgical teams of the 16th pair of Field Ambulance I was thankful that I was not going to have a German butcher I had seen the end result of a German doctors amputation of a man’s foot crudely almost guillotined and without anesthetic I was carried into a large room with medical apparatus everywhere trolleys and tables laden with all sorts of instruments bandages field dressing and splints I was placed on a hard narrow table about four feet from the ground in the distance I could hear the sound of gunfire and German flak which meant that our aircraft were in the vicinity the anesthesia just put up had his needle at the ready and medics were preparing for the operation when there was a noise rather like a giant balloon having air released and then a terrific explosion with a very quick presence of mind one medic threw a blanket over me and shield me from the blast with his own body as shattered glass fell in small pieces and slivers all over the operating theatre then all in quiet again and the blanket was pulled carefully to reveal yours truly with popping eyes my treatment had to wait another day while the place was cleaned up fortunately for me the next visit was uninterrupted the wound was cleaned and redressed and I had my first plaster cast post saw put on and so like I said it seems like at this point that’s it’s relatively civilized I mean if you can forgive a bomb exploding while you’re about to get surgery but relatively civilized compared to what they’d been through at one point there’s an SS officer comes in and they kind of go through the different individuals there and they finally get to him and when he tells him he’s a he’s a airborne guy they say you’re going to a prisoner of war camp and he says here was September 28th it was the 28th of September when German orderlies carried me out of the hospital not so carefully as our own medics and I had to hang onto the sides of the stretcher as we descended the stone steps at the entrance to avoid sliding off and now he gets transported again this time he ends up at the vilem three concerned barracks we were given iron beds with straw filled pillows and the floors were dirty there was no heating and only a meager supply of medical necessities and then at one point a doctor or who or or I presume he was entered the room accompanied by a rotten Fuhrer of the SS Medical Corps the stench from my wound caused disapproval on the face of the doctor and grabbing my big toe with his finger he slowly raised the leg which began to bend at the wound beneath the knee where both the tibia and fibia were broken stopping he peered at the wound inquisitively do you mind that hurts I told him whereupon he simply released the hold of my leg and let it fall on the hard table instantly turning to go looking at me in the eyes with a sadistic expression as he did so you bastards square-headed shite hawk I said I couldn’t care less if he didn’t understand the phrase he just raised an eyebrow with an inquiring look and departed while I returned to my private world of pain then the medics came back with that infernal SS guard and redressed and replastered my leg so like I said there’s I mean it’s not great treatment but I mean let’s face it he’s alive and yeah he goes on here I was at the barracks for a little more than a week when one morning I was for yet another move this time a short journey to the giuliana hospital in Apple doom apeldoorn my stay at Giuliana hospital is going to be the longest and best as far as medical cares go the hospital staff with Dutch doctors and nurses helped by our own doctors and orderlies and the Germans left us well alone to fend for our own medical requirements like I said that seems fairly civilized to me and they’re trying to help him out and here we go it was decided to apply a gadget called a Kirchner wire extension to my leg as

both bones were broken below the knee the theory was to stretch the leg and try to marry the bones in the correct position under an injection of ever pen a steel bar was shot through my ankle bone to act as an anchor a steel cable was then attached to the anchor and to a pulley apparatus below the foot of the bed weights were added each day to steadily stretch the leg otherwise I was told I would be left with a 2-inch shortening necessitating the use of a club boot at a later date which I didn’t much care for but my general condition my general and local condition had regressed considerably and I was at my lowest ebb I was now wishing that I could see the end of this confounded uses lump of decamp decaying flesh and bone on the 19th of November I got my reluctant wish and my leg was amputated by major Peter Smith of 133rd parachute Field Ambulance as I later learned it was not a moment too soon prior to the operation I had been regarded as a hopeless case one of those certain of not lasting after surgery however I made such an amazingly quick recovery that I was back to life and sitting out of bed only a week later the medical orderlies could not do enough for us from bass to fetching bedpans carrying patients from the bed to the loo and back again soothing and dying soothing the dying or reading a book for those too weak or exhausted to do so for themselves they were always on call all hours of the day and night i won when they manage to eat or sleep I asked one who was passing with a bottle in his hand he answered quite cheerfully oh we get 40 winks now and then with a snack in between so there you go I mean almost one sentence no two sentences he was wishing that he could get this this decaying hunk of flesh off of his body and the next time the next sentence is he got it amputated that’s that’s that’s how much that’s that’s that’s him as a matter of fact as you can get I guess is where I’m going with this this is a one last little section of this a Polish para who had dropped that Arcanum was opposite me in the corner of the ward he’d been caught up badly and was having a rough time a German military clergyman kept calling to say prayers and finally came to administer the last rites as he stood there in the in his dark olive green uniform blackjack boots and belt peaked cap under his arm I scrutinized his close-cropped bull neck and square jaw I could not help but notice and thought how strange that he wore a gun holster a man of the cloth with a pistol in a hospital what next so he talks about you know the care that he gets he starts getting moved around a lot the Germans kept shipping us out as soon as they thought we were fit enough to travel and once again I found myself in a truck this time heading to the rail station and Apeldoorn where we pulled up alongside and boarded a Red Cross train and of course this stuff just never gets easy daylight came with a German doing his nut and shouting Spitfire octone Spitfire Achtung I watched a lone Spitfire turn and fly parallel to the Train at about a hundred feet with the same distance from the Train it was quite cheeky I thought the pilot was having a real close look to make sure it was a hospital train I could see clearly as goggles were off and white scarf and felt like giving him a wave as he disappeared behind some pine trees we were now in Germany with snow-covered mountains and forests of fir log cabins dotted here and there making it also picturesque as nightfall came we halted at a dismal looking place a small town I think unfortunately the luxury was now over and we were ushered off the train in a collection on a collection of crutches of varying lengths that were produced and given to the leg amputees so they get end up in this like just junk place we were all a bit under the weather with the added unpleasantness of an amputation one that had an arm and a hand missing another two arms off and most like myself had lost a leg one poor fellow was the worst for blisters on his one and only foot we had a wounded medic who was with us and did all he could to help with medical minimal medical supplies we had only paper bandages it was not the best of nights on the cold stone floor but I somehow slept others were not so fortunate and one chap that

not even lived to see the rest of the journey remaining motionless the next morning as we were roused by the guards so this is transport continues gets on a train finally ends up at another place the snow was quite thick and we pulled in what looked like a school in a small town near Munster three of the Yanks and myself were told to get out and then Laurie carried on its way leaving us standing in the crisp snow a voice is called welcome but he come in he’s a big American from Indiana called Marvin Adams inside he showed us to a room on the left grab yourself a pillow and bed down here I’ll do yours bud he said looking me up and down how’d you manage that fella put the best foot forward at the wrong time I answered oh well this ain’t the Ritz but we’ll have fun he said I wondered what he meant by that always good to be that person with a good attitude when you’re in a damn prisoner of war camp mm-hmm going on here the Germans guards were non-existent except at night as we were all severely wounded there was thick snow outside they were obviously not worried about a mass escape food was sparse but regular and then again more moving I was just getting used to this place when word went around that Jerry was moving us some of us maybe for repatriation having only one pin meaning leg I thought I stood a good chance to be in on this then early one morning three Yanks two Russians and myself were ushered to a truck and taken on a passenger train in which we traveled a few miles only to D train again perhaps to get another connection for as our yet for our as yet to be undisclosed location destination and then they get off that train they get on another train they get on this other train after shunting around a bit and hitching up to another train we rolled off again it was dusk cold and pretty dismal all told then someone struck up our version of the song bless them all and their version of the song was Sodom all Sodom all the long and the short and the tall sod all the sergeants and the wo ones sawed all the corporals and their bastard sons for we’re saying goodbye to them all as back to their billets they’d crawl you’ll get no promotion this side of the ocean so cheer up me lads saw them all and he says it seemed we had joined a group of British soldiers by this was by way of an introduction they finally make it to Bremen we pulled in slowly and as the train came to a stop there were sounds of doors opening in the hustle and bustle of people getting off and making their way along the platform and then it happened an air-raid warning wind out civilian and military personnel immediately began scurrying about in the military I noticed did not hesitate to shove anyone else out of their way a little shot at the German military the civilians are getting pushed out of the way so they can get to cover the air was humming with aircraft American Boeing b-17 Flying Fortresses and our guards quicken their step way ahead of us periodically turning to beckon us to hurry it up we entered the shelter big enough for about a hundred people and after a lot of pushing and shoving settled among amid glares and remarks thrown our way I was happy to let it happen but somehow I’d been pushed and guided into a corner of the shelter away from the door if a bomb lands too near that the Germans take it blast take the blast and cushion any affect on us I thought there was a wooden bench fixed to the wall I dropped to it exhausted three guards spread out between us and other occupants and when the bombing started in earnest the shelter shook I was sure wanted landed close outside because I felt it’s draft reminding me of being blown off my feet in North Africa only that time it was just fifty feet away everyone fell silent as the drone of aircraft and wine and crash a bombs went on with ever-increasing ferocity for a good hour before dying down to a steady drumming and an occasional distant explosion I must admit I always think of these bombing runs as taking like maybe 10 minutes but we’re talking about a good hour people began to chatter this is once everything’s kind of faded people began to chatter as interfere dispersed an external bravado took over I could hear the gnashing of teeth glances accompanying finger pointing in our direction the crowd is getting restive and a big man started pouring forth with words of abuse a big Frau

about 40 years old worked her way nearer to us until she was only a couple feet away I felt the moisture of her spittle as she argued with the guards about the privilege we had being allowed to be in the same shelter as the German people I gathered that that was a crux of the matter that was the crux of the matter at this point a heavy booted foot came out and started propelling my way I parried friendly with my right hand and the boot just brushed my balls coming to a harmless glancing blow on my left thigh the guard stood firm restraining the woman and trying to calm everyone down it was only then that I noticed a familiar sound in French our guards were Frenchmen constricted and conscripted in the German army anyway they saved my nuts from being cracked there must’ve been another hour’s wait at the stations another back gonna transfer transfer again there must’ve been another hour’s wait at the station until I an old army type lorry with solid tires turned up aw sorry they were waiting for a truck I couldn’t care less at this stage provided I didn’t have to hobble on crutches before long I saw the large POWs camp ahead with its 8 foot high wire fences and guards platforms sticking up like sore thumbs all around there was a collection of dingy looking Hut’s dotting the interior the lorry slowed at the gate and the senior guard jumped down through the handy handing out to go through the handing over ceremony then the big wood and wire gates creaked open and the lorry jerked into the compound where out we tumbled I was exhausted and sweating as if I’d just come out of a Turkish bath my stump was throbbing I stayed lying on the ground where I landed managing to support myself on one elbow while the rest of the party sat knelt or remained standing with the aid of their crutches I didn’t want a welcoming committee but wish that someone would show us where to go one of the guards was busy having a chat and laughed with his mate eventually he gave us the go-ahead and the party moved off slowly and wearily I found myself left behind I tried to get up at a muster enough strength to make it so I started crawling dragging the crutches I’d only managed five or six yards when I heard voices and saw two pairs of gated boots come come on me old mate a voice said we’ll give you a lift on which they lifted me with ease and carried me I don’t know how far I didn’t even get a glimpse of their faces to say thanks sinking down onto a straw mattress I just slept and slept for the next two days when I awoke I found that I was in Stalag x1 B in Saxony along with a large number of other airborne men it was not long before I contracted more complaints to add to my already sorry condition lice and bugs were in abundance in my hut the nights were the worst the iron stove was stoked right up at night and the heat was awful with all the doors and windows shut tight urine buckets would fill to the brim in no time making the stench nauseous I went down with dysentery pleurisy and scarlet fever which together with my amputation meant that I did not feel all that good reg is hard as nails if I had wanted to die I would have but fortunately that didn’t enter my head little key note as I read that I thought hmm let’s think about that if you want to die if you want to give up you that there’s the time but luckily fortunately for him that thought did not enter his head after a short time promising news again I’m jumping ahead like this is what we’re talking of every little thing that he just talked about is a nightmare and he’s got him all at the same time it’s been a while since we talked about lice on the podcast yeah we’ve been missing out on that one we think lice is no big deal because your kid gets it and then you get some special little medicine from the store and then you put it in their hair or you shave their head and and either way problem solved mm-hmm these guys are got it and there’s no way to get rid of it this is by the way while they’ve got dysentery and clergy and scarlet fever and an amputation however fast forward a little bit after a short time promising news I was told that I was going to be repatriated I boarded yet another train no sooner do we set off that there was a terrific woosh and the train stopped in the middle of nowhere I could hear the guttural Tang twang of German civilians as they ran hell for leather on each side of the train to take cover from what must have been our own aircraft overhead one of the guards just been loosed and left it to us looking down to the track I saw that it was much too high for me to jump with only one leg though some of our party of eight jumped and took cover i fouled my pants and don’t know whether it was

fright or the dysentery that was still with me the planes returned they were – rocket firing RAF typhoons which specialised in ground attack I recognized the sound as they got nearer there was another woosh and then another followed by an ear-splitting explosion the carriage shook so violently that I thought we were going to topple over as always in such a task it was over in no time with such attacks it was over in no time and all is suddenly peaceful again so they have to go and repair this train and then finally we had reached a snug little village called mais burg on the German side of the border with Belgium and once again we see some nicer treatment our first job was to be cleaned up and we were taken in pairs into the shower I was asked to remove all personal items from my pockets and all clothing was to be cleaned and fumigated don’t worry you’ll get everything back an English medic told me here put this on it was a sort of cotton smock which tied in the back was just long enough to cover to the knee first in came a great big American with the same garb with four arms like tree branches he lifted me bodily with the ease of Samson himself mind you I was down from 14 stone to just over 8 since last September and to translate that into American English he weighed 196 pounds in September and now he weighs a hundred and twelve on reaching the shower his maid asked can you stand on one leg bud sure I said Samson had taken his smock off and proceeded to bathe me while Hercules steadied me I was carried back to a most luxurious bed with white sheets God knows where this when they scrounge the sheets but trust the Yanks there were approximately forty wounded there a mixture of English French an American with four American and two English orderlies one of the walking wounded acted as a cook all the others doing menial tasks they did not mind them so he’s in this pretty car can I even say let’s say let’s just say an improved situation an improved situation is what is he in that goes on a little bit you know even he calls it the luxury things began to liven up outside the rumbling in the distance grew nearer and groups have bedraggled weary looking Germans plotted through the village the wounded borne by horse and cart field guns were manhandled the luxury of enemy motorized transport being afforded to senior officers only who clearly wished to withdraw in his dignified a manner as possible leaving unter officers to do all the donkey work along with the shoots n’ and suffer all the humiliation of being seen by their own countrymen it was a pathetic sight like a cutting from the first world war film archives as the dawn approached the throb of motorized transport and tanks was very near so he’s seeing the Germans kind of walking back he’s seen the officers in the vehicles the German officers in the vehicles and the German troops walking or being carried if they were wounded and here’s tank activity right which is kind of an indication when you hear tank activity but you see people withdrawing with horses and carriages that’s an indication that perhaps the tanks that we’re hearing are Friendly’s as dawn approached the throb of motorized transport and the tanks was very near you could hear the squeak of the tank’s wheels rubbing against the caterpillar track thirsty for lubrication edging and shunting into position for the impending advance in the village that noise that a tank makes in the city is just we knew well who is awesome and and it’s also horrifying like these guys when they are hearing the German tanks outside when they’re in that that battle where they’re about to be overrun the horror can’t even imagine of tanks coming and now the joy which I got to experience some of the joy in Ramadi of hey the tanks are coming it’s cool or its glorious and God bless the tankers and here these guys feeling the same way the American orderlies were jubilant they’re here limey the Yanks are here exploded Hank anyone who get up walk hop or propel themselves in some way momentarily forgot their wounds and discomfort they peered through the cracks and the doors through the windows I could not see anything from my window only the Nazi flag of the local garrison hanging listless like the enemy itself bill one of the English medics came dashing in not knowing which way to turn in his excitement there’s hundreds of them there’s hundreds of tanks out there bloody well hundreds of them Sherman tanks of General Patton’s armoured division had encircled the village in the early hours of that morning and were

in a very advantageous position as we were in the valley and they were on the high ground every gun would have its own selected target with orders to open fire if fired upon thankfully the tanks played a waiting game with the non-existent enemy because the because unknown to the Americans the birds had flown an American Scout car ventured cautiously toward the village unmolested it reached the outskirts scanning the Brit buildings where white flags were protruding no sign of the enemy still in view of the tanks on the hill it became bolder and cruised gently into the village our makeshift hospital with a painted red cross on the roof must have been in view of the scalp car now all these goings-on were being shouted by one of the medics in the passageway for the benefit of all those like me he who could not see for themselves so he’s getting a play-by-play the Scout car came to a stop it’s occupants clutching their automatics at the ready they must have spotted someone stepped carefully into view that person was a medic with a Red Cross armband Hank the orderly from Ohio he was about a hundred yards from the Scout car and they stealthily approached each other Hank not wishing to be mistaken for a German ruse though in the Scout car not wishing to fall for any trick as they drew closer the realization dawned that they were brothers a wireless call was immediately sent to the tanks on the skyline and in minutes the village was alive to their Rumble as they thundered on through leaving an acrid smell of oil and exhaust fumes I was almost home and you know I got to that point in the book and I was like well that’s that’s where you stop and it’s definitely a good place to stop but let’s let’s take that as a stop that incredible glory of seeing the Americans seeing Patton’s armored division roll in and knowing that he was almost home but there are some things to think about and he covers them in the epilogue here he says the casualties in the Arnhem area alone were 8000 airborne killed wounded captured or missing including poles plus more than 400 RAF pilots and crew there were 750 Dutch civilians and underground fighters killed at least 2,500 Germans and in the following winter of 1944 to 1945 some 200,000 Dutch died of starvation so it’s so it’s important to understand that these you know you see you see this through one man’s eyes but that thousands in fact hundreds of thousands were affected by this particular battle and again that might be a good place to stop but there’s another note here he talks about several years later I visited the place of thinking if you will of that great man and founder of the parachute regiment Winston Churchill the war rooms situated far below ground at the Treasury chambers in Westminster the existence of these a warren room warren of rooms was a well-kept secret during the warriors the tour was fascinating everything remained exactly as it had been back then I sat in Churchill’s chair in front of me on the desk printed on a black card printed in black on a card the words of Queen Victoria in this house we never speak of defeat in this house we never speak of defeat and he goes on in the toilet there was a red telephone a direct line to President Roosevelt in Washington in the visiting ministers room I opened a book entitled world war 2 on the Sicily landings and saw a training shot of members of my eleventh SAS battalion to the fore in the line up or Harry bants corporal Hudson Jimmy Metcalfe and myself

down here beneath Westminster I’ve surrounded I am sure by a dedicated team Churchill did his job extremely well I would like to think that I did my best alongside other leopards lions and tigers of the first parachute Brigade and again III really didn’t get into the fact that at some one point their their call signs their code names had been the leopards lions and tigers that’s what they’re the different battalions were called it could be a good place to stop I’m gonna go a little bit further this is actually in the preface of this book and he says when the war ended because this is but he survived he was home when the war ended I found it a little difficult initial initially knuckling down to civilian life the letter from the government saying you are now a civilian seemed so sudden I couldn’t face the prospect of an office job so I tried manufacturing making handbags before joining my brother-in-law John in his landscape gardening business and then Browns branching out on my own in the same line of work having an artificial leg didn’t help but I didn’t let it hinder me then the limb fitting Center at Gillingham kindly reinforced my artificial knee for kneeling several times I got a BSA motorbike and sidecar and had the gears modified to operate by hand and set a foot I built my own house you do the best you can again I mean hey found it a little rough but guess what I’m gonna go I’m gonna go to work I’m gonna start a business I’m gonna build a house I’m gonna drive a motorbike around the country with a sidecar you do the best you can and I also wanted to say that he wasn’t alone he obviously needed that sidecar for someone and I’m quite sure that that was one of the dedications of the book is for Betty Francis reges what’s it helped me so much and the last thing I’ll say and the last thing I’ll read from this book I should say is the dedication and he says I dedicate this book to all my airborne friends who never came back whose actions have made it possible for me and other airborne friends to enjoy over 70 years of living and that is well that’s the parts I’m gonna read from this book but um reg Curtis died on January 29th 2016 94 years old he was the last surviving member of the original first parachute battalion the last of those initial 500 men that took that step forward and volunteered for parachute in commando training in 1940 in the book the book which is called the memory indoors the book it’s actually not available on Amazon it’s not available in book stores I actually got it I got it from somebody that that sent it to me and with no inscription in it it says he sent me a note it says dear Jocko keep up the great work best wishes I believe

it says Rick or rich so that’s where I got the book from luckily it was sent to me I wouldn’t have known about it otherwise if you want to get this book which you should it’s available from pilots publishing dot co dot uk’ and there’s also a Facebook page the memory facebook.com slash the memory indoors and as it says in the book the author’s royalties in respect of this book will be donated to the parachute regimen charity and there you go another hero teaching us the sacred lesson that we must never forget that life as a gift and as reg Curtis tells us what you do with that is you do the best you can you do the best of that you care and with that echo echo Charles as I D compress over here a little bit maybe you got some ideas of how how we can be the best we can yes what do you got for us well I one of the many things that I took was I don’t know if it was his attitude hmm or if that’s the culture or both you know could be a bit better then I was the other guy right who was like could be a bit better do we can do a bit better yeah so on these terrible conditions right could be a bit better oh no you’re talking about the guy that says not too bad not too bad so you know like I said probably probably both right attitude let’s culture the attitude right when things when you go through adversity you can have that attitude not too bad not too bad could be good be better maybe we’re about to get overrun and there’s a strong possibility we’re gonna get killed all right not too bad not too bad could be better yeah there’s a little positive thought pattern there yeah it’s kind of like well it’s really a good news bad news yeah it’s also a realistic view right yeah hey I’m still walking hey I still got ammunition yeah and by the way it’s not not too bad means we don’t have to do anything could it be better though yeah maybe there’s some things we can work on yes yeah well I forget what movie it was when he’s like I got good news and bad I think I’d have been Tango in cash I don’t know maybe maybe not but anyway he said I had good news and bad news is what’s the bad news where I’m almost out of gas and he’s like well what’s the good news we’re almost out of gas see that’s the attitude really good man anyway speaking attitudes good and bad what we’re doing one of the many things is jujitsu okay so that’s a really good news/bad news scenario as well really what’s the bad news bad news is you’re gonna get choked from time to time I know this firsthand that’s that’s the bad news but the good news is you are exposed to an environment that will teach you how to choke others if the need may arise good yes so good news is you’re getting choked I’m sorry bad news is you’re getting choked yes the good news is you’re getting choked which means you’re learning how to defend also choke other people yes so if we repetitively well that could be good or bad because whatever so it’s a matter of your attitude mmm really how was your attitude lately on getting choked a lot of learning you know learning what do you call it when you relearn something you know lessons less repetitive repetitive iterative learning sessions hey it’s not an inoculation you know it’s repetitive well it is it’s both imagine that you get choked one time you’ll never get choked again no no that’s not the happens at the jujitsu so we are it sounds like jujitsu even though there’s a negative possible thing right mm-hmm but it’s not too bad not too bad could be better could be better if you train it yes start training the more you train the better you get so there you go anyway while we’re training we’re gonna need a geek cuz you’re gonna do ghee what do you do not Diggy well I guess that’s possible but okay how about recommended no no I recommend are you gonna fight people all the time that are just wearing shorts no no what if you get in a street fight okay if you get a street fight at the beach maybe what if you get a street fight at the supermarket with the jean jacket yes somebody

something like this yeah yeah he’s taking the last you know and and really that’s like that’s a proper you know like that you gotta fight them for something like this but that’s even just one of the extra teeny tiny way of looking at it where it’s like okay oh because the chance of you getting in an actual fight are pretty low if you okay not to say that you shouldn’t you know I’m not saying that but they’re pretty low that’s what I’m saying especially if you’re gonna actively avoid getting into a fight yes if you’re smart you smart yes the problem is you can’t always avoid no you can maybe a situation and here’s the deal if you are forced into a situation that where you have to defend yourself and you don’t know how the result is catastrophic catastrophic we why I have that catastrophic possibility here’s the deal if that’s the only reason you were training jiu-jitsu if that was the only reason it would be worth it if that was the only reason here’s the deal you and that’s not the only reason there’s a thousand other reasons there’s there’s an infinite more reasons right you’re gonna get in better conditioning you’re gonna get mental stimulus you’re gonna meet other human beings you’re gonna develop relationships and have friends you’re going to think you’re gonna develop discipline in your life right this is a long list I mean this goes on so even if the only thing you were gonna get was just you learn how to defend yourself totally worth it now not only you need to defend yourself you can be able to get these other collateral bonus things which by the way some people in order to work their cardiovascular system that are riding a spin bike somewhere someone else in order to work their flexibility is doing a yoga class someone else in order to work their strength is lifting some weights which I’m not saying no I’m saying you don’t do all those things but I’m saying you can get all three of them like a little a little hitter of all three of them no problem get on the jujitsu mats yeah gee noogie both of them yes well yes but if you’re if you doing the only because someone on the street might be wearing certain types of clothes same exact same exact same exact point I just made yeah if you’re only you only gonna do ghee because of that it’s worth it but there’s all these other beneficial things yes and I’ll tell you this right now the really the number one thing that’ll keep you in jujitsu doing it the number one thing and it’s maybe even by far for most people is that it’s fun I was gonna say fun it’s great I hope we’re alive yeah it’s true because look think about it oh yeah I’m gonna I’m gonna do jujitsu for self-defense oh yeah that’s when I started G when I started you Jitsu me mm-hmm when I started I was like I am just gonna get good enough here so I can so I can handle myself which is like it’s about six month period yeah about six months you know if you’re an aggressive guy and you you’re a good athlete or strong or whatever six months you’re pretty good to go right six months of GG is here you know what’s up mm-hmm it’s been 20 whatever years yeah yeah exactly right and so oh yeah don’t I mean and if you tap someone out try the first time the first time you tap someone out then say like oh yeah that’s it I made that up by the way you’re trying to impinge on my my statement well you might have made up saying that maybe bringing it to light but the fact is true oh so you’re saying that I only quoted like like a universal truth yeah you know self-evident I don’t know man cuz people used to ask how long should I train for or they know I mean we got the question on the podcast how long should – I really don’t like it and the answer was at first I will you should try for six-month all three months whatever no no yeah train until you you tap someone out I don’t use the term in anger but you tap someone out for real yeah it’s your training environment yeah and then you’re good yeah you’re right that was that was the specific answer so yeah that is yours okay okay I just making sure cuz I’m over here wanting a full credit nonetheless if you’re training it just for you if you would have said it in not such a such a way like the way you said it man you thought you you said it as if you just created like II MC squared over there you’re like you should train until you you were looking down your nose at me as you said it as if so I had to call you out on that my little bro yo oh good I was just remembering the other day the Austrian guy that came came Kurt her young Kurt yes so I asked him was like how long you been training he said like a month or something it’s like some kind of kind of new were really new and so I said have you tapped anyone out yet and he said yes yeah like all this guys in the game I knew already you know so that maybe I kind of drew from that recent experience too you know to kind of say it but when the last like was saying if you train only for self-defense only for self-defense not because it’s fun not

because it’s a good workout not because you got a bunch of new friends not because all this stuff only for self-defense after a while not even a long while after a short while you can be like man like I don’t even know I’m doing it like right I’m not even I’m not using it to defend myself really yeah you know those are kind of rare you know then you might not do it you know especially not fun so there you go fun people like there are people who train jujitsu for decades literally decades that have never got in a fight before never got a street fight you never got in it like a physical fight it was like yeah are they training for self-defense yeah sure of course but that’s not why they’re in the game yeah exactly right so nonetheless when we do it like I said do the ghee that’s gonna be one of it the other part it’s no game when you do get a key you get a warden key yeah 100% 100% best keys by far factually now same type of thing if you’re gonna get an origin key just because you want the best key that’s good that’s a good that’s a good reason like that’s solid right it’s my reason if you peel back the layer a little bit and you want to find out what else you’re gonna get well guess what else you’re gonna get you’re gonna get the fact that you are literally rebuilding an industry and a community and in an economy inside of America you know that’s a little that’s not even a little bonus like there are some people that would look at that and say I’m gonna buy an orange knee just because of that yeah and then if I even dude you do to that sort of secondary I’m saying I could dig it now if you’re feeling it let’s say you’re feeling it you’re feeling that part mmm you’re feeling like America you’re feeling the economy you’re feeling the community feeling the industry you’re gonna bring it back you’re gonna help but you still haven’t gotten over the hump of showing up at jujitsu school but you still want to support it’s okay it’s we’ll say I step in the right direction we we have jeans that you can get right you can get jeans you’re still gonna help those other three I would prefer the first thing that you get in all seriousness the first thing I would prefer you get is a key because that tells me you’re gonna go get on the map if you if you because so many people and you know what everybody well you know what 99% of people say when they finally start jujitsu I wish I would have started well you know when I first this bah you know that’s what people say tell you this I’m meeting people now that are purple belts that start at jujitsu when they started listening this podcast so we’re about probably three to four years away from having somebody that started jujitsu listening this podcast will be a black belt mm-hmm in jujitsu which is a awesome achievement here’s the thing there’s also people that will say I started listening to podcast and three years went by before I started you could have been a purple bow don’t wait I’m telling you right now like I’m telling you right now start you Jitsu yeah emphatically telling you that and by the way we touched on a little up kind of combatives hand-to-hand combat in this book all right and there’s a whole line of a whole thread we can pull on that and we will at some point the the the British combatives program World War two very cool I’ll I’ve done I’ve read a bunch about it and we’ll we’ll dig into it here because it’s pretty awesome well the way they were doing things their concepts etc but if they were alive today they’d be learning the jujitsu you do all day yeah yeah and they’d be getting American geese even from England they’d be like you know what those those Yanks did yeah get yourself a Yankee right because again really the primary reason is because it’s actually the best one yeah I’m saying yep same thing for jeans where I would say since I got my pair of origin jeans which is like while ago when you think about it when they came out so while ago I have not worn any other jeans ever no yeah why would you why would you do that no there’s not even a reason to do that reason I don’t have one pair to first and though I don’t have three but nonetheless that’s the only ones I wear also are there we have other stuff here that origin we do so yeah joggers you know more athletic wear all kinds of good stuff you go to origin main dot-com mean like the state also supplements keep yourself in the game yep propel yourself further down the path yeah other word yep get yourself joint warfare and krill oil just out of the gate once again and I feel bad cuz I did this on social media where the guy was like hey what can I do to help me I was I I didn’t want to be that guy that was like well you know here try my supplement line you know I just don’t I just don’t want to be that guy and then later I felt bad I was like I should

have just been straight up and said hey listen man do whatever you want to do get yourself some krill oil and join warfare immediately order that oh what you’re 36 years old and you feeling sore and your joints and your act I think I was literally asking me how my choice knows I didn’t say it because I don’t to be that guy yeah right now I’m being that guy you know what guy I’m being the guy that’s actually trying to help people cuz I didn’t help that guy as much as I could have I should have said listen do what I’d you know be consistent don’t take big chunks of time off order krill oil and oil joint warfare right now yeah that’s what you have to do that’s my recommendation I feel bad for not doing that I will try not to make that mistake again no I had the same experience I went on with Pete and Brian mmm hens in daylight okay and an episode with him recently and he was the and Pete was saying oh yeah you’re like durable because I don’t have like ailments you know Pete’s jammed up his back this is like you know world I’m older than him actually and he’s like oh yeah you’re durable you know and I was like yeah I mean because I never thought I was durable at all like that I was pretty fragile to be honest but you guys might cuz you know what Pete said to me like when he was just out here he was like you told me I was durable well he’s a Lardner I figured that you guys had that conversation cuz I said that’s what echo told me one time and you told me when you told me that it had been like it when you told it to me it had been like you had been contemplating it for quite some time you were like you know what I figured out about you and I was like what and you said you’re dirt yeah like a tank I was like that’s interesting and I had to kind of agree with it yes and so he said that I was durable and I was like well and we even said no jock was durable I don’t and them but then I guess on in a way yeah yeah you are you bounce back from some pretty significant you know any well how many surgeries you I had one knee surgery but a few knee injuries plus my loose knees I know I know I know I don’t lose anyway for real anyway so they pop out all the time so I’m saying that you know and they’ll get squats how’s this I do do squats and actually now I go deep like all the way down like you yeah oh yeah that’s the feeling tighter no no great I mean same know they still pop out in jujitsu like when I do butterfly cut anyway so long so it doesn’t matter they’re loose clinically the doctor orthopedic surgeon told me that anyway what’s right papa so anyway I don’t feel like anyway given the circumcised I’m pretty durable but anyway the point is we’re talking about this stuff and then like I’m like saying like oh yeah plus I don’t think time on it and then I’m naturally going into plastic during warfare krill oil everything like religiously you know so it’s basically the point was to to just say you gotta like actively be durable you know kind of thing but say I liked purely genetic apparently right increase your durability also we got other stuff we got discipline go in a can which is just awesome it’s awesome no sugar it tastes delicious it has some caffeine in it it has to let me just it’s got some other things in there but it’s got a little kick that goes with it same with the discipline powder which is what I drink pretty much all the time it’s almost it doesn’t have too much caffeine in the in the discipline powder it’s got like 15 milligrams a scoop which is not crazy at all it’s a micro dose even if you have two scoops what’s that 30 mil you know 45 milligrams for three scoops it’s not that big of a deal but tastes delicious has some other ingredients that give you a little you give a little kick and then of course Mulk yes protein in the form of the these dirt mm-hmm for adults and kids even though it’s like sure the kids are gonna drink the regular milk and let’s face it the adults gonna drink the word kid mom drink so much warrior kid mocha I’m surprised I haven’t turned to gone down in age yeah unless those are there too so and they taste insane that’s the thing yeah so that’s that also jockle whitey and by the way right now this all this all these supplements that you might want to try are available at the Vitamin Shoppe nationwide and everyone that’s been going out and buying stuff there it’s pretty cool appreciate it they’re like hey everything selling out and we’re like yeah get more people in the people are in the game across the board orange in mein kampf get so thank you also again reminder if you’re gonna get this book you can’t get this book on can’t get it on Amazon you have to go to pilots publishing co dot uk’ go to the facebook.com slash the memory indoors

also chocolates the store it’s called Yakko store and this is where you can get the gear I really use the word gear that much but music keep the gear t-shirts rash guards hoodies hat second stuff to represent the path gear discipline equals freedom good take the high ground or the high ground we’ll take you that’s that job unless we want to represent while you’re on the path that’s what do it chuckles door calm also subscribe to this podcast if you haven’t yet is if there’s a possibility that you’ve listened to 500 hours and you’ve been like well I’m not quite sure yet I’m I’m asking that you just you know go for it just just get crazy and and subscribe I don’t even know why someone would not subscribe you know just trying it out yes if you also want to relieve a review some people leave really good reviews and buy good reviews I don’t mean hey it’s a great podcast I really like the insight that no I mean I mean reviews that are let’s just say there’s they’ve got layers layers fun colorful color later they make me laugh they make me chuckle yes sir don’t forget about the ground Sun yes so shines a good deed in a weary world no no no you haven’t seen Willie walk in the Chocolate Factory lately no I – I don’t think I’ve seen on any other oh I saw part of the Johnny Depp one no as part of it foul well no wrong you got to watch the original one it’s an awesome it’s a great movie well interesting that’s interesting jock you heard it Jocko watch that bed Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is an awesome yes it is an awesome movie okay Oh amen maybe I’ll look into it maybe I’ll report back the less grounded podcasts I’ve got over here thrown out quotes from the movie right we’re doing Shakespeare we’re doing we’re doing the memory indoors but we’re also throwing out some Willy Wonka Charlie and the Chocolate Factory sure well there you go that will make sense anyway like oh saying of grandeur podcast ass podcast about life jiu-jitsu life life jiu-jitsu juices is infused into life or his life infused into gee it’s both well more important I think life is reflective of jujitsu and jujitsu is reflective of life so if you can learn from one that you will learn both which is important it’s true now quite as often as jockle podcast but it’s out there so which is weird because it’s like really hard to make this podcast and it’s really easy to make a grounded one but you know we do we do the hard things yes that’s what we focus on probably turn it prioritize and what is the second part just got a knife in this warrior kid podcast which is a good one for the young trooper warrior kids and don’t be shy if you’re a parent to listen because you’re gonna learn I wish I would’ve had that podcast as a parent when my kids were young actually in a way it’s a parent pod it is it is yes it is yeah cuz you know like you know like when you when you hear of like certain people’s childhoods or whatever like certain like people who are like successful in X Y Z you wouldn’t be athletes whatever right and you learn about their childhood you probably he could probably learn some solid stuff like oh I just just that one little dude I mean let me try to you know start incorporating just yeah the word keep I guess it’s all in there yeah speaking of warrior kids don’t forget about the warrior kid soap at I rejoice wrench calm and actually right now live live is a new mmm what’s it bobble what’s it called a Hoosier model it’s not flavor because you don’t know come on I’m thinking of regular soap so you know like I don’t know what do they say it it’s a new version we have a new model a new version of soap you you actually have to check it out because it’s so legit it’s called well what it does let me unless what it does is it’s got some anti microbial Rubio anti microbial I think I do it it’s got some anti fungal natural elements to it one of those elements is like it’s got like tea tree it’s got activated charcoal and what’s cool so this is what’s cool so first of all the soap is called killer soap that’s the name of the so but what but what it’s it couldn’t be any more perfect because it is because of the charcoal it’s black yeah so it’s black and it’s awesome yeah so get yourself

some killer soap from Irish Oaks ranch company by the way this is a kid that’s making it a kid that started a company and pitched me you know much stuff I get pitched I get pitched up five times a day I get pitched something this that and the other this kid pitched me but you know he pitched me he’s like hey I’m already rolling yeah you know I’m already rolling I’m already making so by the way I’m 10 and I’ve got a soap production line for and I’ve got vertical integration I mean he was getting after it yeah so Jaden pitched me pitched me and of course he didn’t even pitch me by can you know he was like I want you to know what I’m doing hmm there are openings if you would like to get a piece yeah and you invest in the people right yeah I’m looking at a kid that’s 10 years old that’s sending a business plan that’s sending samples what do you like so anyways we went deep to cover the grappling and just the look there’s nasty things in the world mm-hm and if you want to you can get some killer soap and that will help you as a person inside and out to stay clean yeah good logo to copy just making everyone suffer through our own little inside jokes the good Lord it’s true so yes Irish Oaks ranch calm that’s where you get it and as jock who said you know hey stay clean man right anyway YouTube channel as well jock podcast does have a YouTube channel so you can get the video version and also excerpts and stuff like that some enhanced videos varying levels of acceptance and variables of it has life from people yeah so anyway yeah so YouTube channel subscribe to that if you want and smashed I said it I said it I said it you can times is that funny I don’t know but it wasn’t more than 29 it’s only funny when you say it because it’s so I don’t I can’t even get it anymore yeah cuz it’s it’s worn out bro okay so just no no more no stop also don’t forget about psychological warfare little psychological hater and I actually had the person point out to me hey that was me now so that’s one I also had the person point out to me that there’s a name for the type of shooting that we talked about which is where you’re shooting at where things are supposed you think things might be it’s called Drake shooting and the dude is that like a he’s a guy that’s on Twitter who always brings up good points he does his own personal research on stuff but he’s got a weird like handle hmm then I can’t remember what it is ever I mean I recognized in a heartbeat I know I can tell you all the kind of things so anyways I apologize for not telling you that Drake shooting appreciate the info he’s always got a good info but with a psychological hitter with someone that’s realized that that’s what psychological warfare is it’s not some broad course on how to have more discipline in your life it’s just a little bit of a encase you know psychological warfare and if you need a visual hitter you can go to flipside canvas comm Dakota Meyer making a bunch of really cool bunch of really cool graphic images that you can hang up on your wall so you stay on the path no matter what books Hey look for this book right here the memory indoors awesome book an honor to be able to read it thank you to Rick or rich who sent it to me and yes we will keep up the work that we’re doing here if you want to get this book go to pilots publishing dot co dot uk’ or go to facebook.com the memory indoors and if you’ll also be helping out the regiment the parachute regiment charity on top of that leadership strategy and tactics everyone that’s got it thank you you’re probably going to get copies of those for the people that you know recommended let’s get your team on board appreciate it warrior kid one two and three probably the best kids books that you can get right now in my opinion I’m biased but I’m gonna be biased because I read them and I think man the lessons in these books I wish I knew him yeah I wish I knew him so warrior kid books one two and three way the warrior kid marks mission and where there’s a will Mike in the dragons if you’ve got a littler kid that wants to learn the one of the most important things that you can learn as a kid is how to overcome fear that book shows you how to overcome fear just when it was freedom Field Manual get it so that you can read two pages read two pages okay you know let’s say we made up a a pill

that you could take this pill and you would get a mind shift in a positive way like you would you if you took this pill you would increase your discipline factually okay would that pill pill sell well would people want it yes okay read two pages this book your discipline will increase sixteen to eighteen percent by the way yeah the increase in discipline well read two pages well in the defense of the pill people mm-hmm pill advocates the whole purpose of a pill is so you don’t have to do any kind of work read or do all this stuff assume scene okay so okay two pages of this book is not an extended period time you’re finishing this in less than four minutes also right so this this book essentially is the pill of books so you know instead of like the encyclopedia dad Oh books same thing we’ll take it it’s a rough loose analogy not sure not hundred percent I don’t think they think through that one and then of course we got extreme ownership of the dichotomy in leadership these are the foundational books about leadership that I wrote with my brother Leif babban we got national on front which is a leadership consultancy look if you have a business if you have a team if you have a company and you have problems every single problem that you have is a leadership problem I guarantee that every single problem that you have is a leadership problem and what we do at echelon front is we solve problems through leadership so go to echelon front comm for details we got EF online which is leadership interactive leadership training online it’s EF online comm you can get the information you can get the repetitions you can get put you can get put in scenarios that will help you think through problems at EF online we also do little live webinars where we answer questions EF online comm we got the muster coming up in Dallas Texas Orlando Florida and Phoenix Arizona every event that we’ve done has sold out if you want to come go to extreme ownership calm right now and register leadership seminar that’s what we do there and of course we’ve got EF overwatch and EF legion placement for military people that understand extreme ownership that understand the dichotomy of leadership EF overwatch is for executive leadership inside companies EF legion frontline troops and frontline leaders go to EF overwatch comm or EF Legion to get involved in that from either side whether you’re a vet that wants to get into a civilian job or their civilian company that needs veterans to help you lead and win go to those websites and get that figured out and if you have not heard enough of my overly dramatic speech patterns and excessively long pauses and you haven’t heard enough of echos ridiculous commentary about the heroic life of being a bouncer then we are available on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on e old Fife HECO is that echo Charles and I am out chocolate will again thank you all for listening to the podcast and for giving this podcast your support thanks for spreading the word thanks for telling your friends thanks for getting some deaf court gear or some origin gear all of which allows us to do this podcast and of course thanks to reg Curtis for your service and sacrifice to keep us free and all the military members out there in uniform right now doing the same thing keeping the enemy at bay and also to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service and all first responders thank you for keeping us safe every single day here at home and everyone else out there remember what reg Curtis taught us to never give up even against overwhelming odds to never accept defeat to persevere and endure until the end and then when you get tripped up or you get knocked down even then what you do is you do the best you can lesson learned Thank You reg Curtis and we will be out there in your honor and getting after it

then until next time Zek oh and Jocko out

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