– [Barb] I would like to call the meeting of the finance committee to order Roll call: Alder Lefebvre – [Kathy] Here – [Barb] Alder Corpus-Dax – [Veronica] Present – [Barb] Alder Dorff here, and Alder Galvin is on his way I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda – [Kathy] So moved – [Barb] So moved by Alder Lefebvre – [Veronica] Second – [Barb] Second by Alder Corpus-Dax All those in favor? – [All] Aye – [Barb] Motion to carry proof of minutes – [Veronica] Motion to approve – [Barb] Motion to approve by Alder Corpus-Dax – [Kathy] Second – [Barb] Second by Alder Lefebvre All those in favor – [All] Aye – [Barb] Motion carries, regular business Update and discussion on the five year combined capital improvement plan 2024 So this is a new adventure for everyone, and the first time that we’re really trying to do this So I think there’s gonna be a lot of mourning and listening, and – [Diana] Yep, that’s what we had talked about, we should make this kind of an organizational meeting What we have presented in the packet, the large packet, was really some of the expenses in which the department has had submitted Doesn’t talk about any funding sources, it’s just some of the needs that we feel are within the city We’ve put it out in front of you Now we wanna talk about the process and how we wanna proceed to decide priorities We will talk about funding sources later Just find out what expenses, honestly, and what years, have a better understanding of what makes up the expenses The mayor is here, and he would like to address the committee – [Barb] Okay, Mayor Genrich – [Eric] Well first of all, thanks to Director Ellenbecker and staff for working with all of our departments to put this document together I think it’s a really important process, and one that hasn’t been done from the city’s perspective in quite some time So I think it’s really great that we’re engaging this, engaging in this work, not just internally, but I think it’s an important public document so that citizens are aware of, sort of, what our capabilities are, what our plans are, what the project we’ve identified that are really necessary for the future of the community So thanks to you all for being willing to get to work on this I think it’s really important work So, one thing that I just wanted to touch on and pull out, ’cause it’s sort of obvious, if you just take a look at the document, the inclusion of the public safety building in the capital improvement plan along with a couple of fire stations It’s a little bit eye-popping when you see them appear in 2022 The way that I have philosophically talked about this with staff, and I’m hoping that council is interested in moving down this road, is to have a really honest accounting of what our needs are But, I don’t think we have the borrowing capacity or the tools at our disposal to include items such as those in our capital improvement plan as it stands So, one thing that I’ve talked about doing is creating a capital projects list that is a sort of appendix to the plan or program It would identify things that are of true need to our citizens, but given the tools at our disposal, can’t be tackled within this context So, I would like to kinda just bounce that off of you, while I’ll get your perspective on that, and certainly hear from folks in our department as well But if you just look at what the directives are, simply from our finance department, and experts who are external to the city, that eight million dollar range is sort of what they’re recommending on an annual basis, and in 2022 it’s substantially greater than that So, in addition to that, one thing that I’ve talked a lot about publicly and with state legislators, and others in the community, is our real need for additional tools to build for the future We don’t have a local sales tax option currently It’s something that I’ve been advocating for and I think a number, a couple members have been having some conversations with folks about that possibility I think it’s something that cities and villages and other municipalities deserve access to, counties Alder Lefebvre has notes– – Do you think something like that as a possibility for them to, – – – [Eric] I mean, in the near term, I think it’s unlikely, but it’s something that is bubbling to the surface with colleagues in other cities with the League of Wisconsin Municipalities It’s something that they’ve devoted some research dollars to, so I’m hoping that that will, that push will continue As you know, as a county supervisor,

the county has that authority They also have that authority to share with municipalities and school districts within the jurisdiction I think that’ll be difficult to arrange in the near term, but that’s also something that, if we fail to get that authority, the tax ourselves, using sales tax, I would like to see a partnership with the county along those lines But those were just some comments that I wanted to address ‘Cause like I said, the 2022 numbers is a little bit eye-popping with some of those major facilities included But again, thanks to staff in the finance department and across the city for participating in this Thanks again to Chairman Dorff for convening this meeting, and for y’all, for really being interested in getting outta the weeds on this stuff So, that’s really all I have for comments, but happy to answer any questions – [Barb] I don’t have questions but I think this is a really good learning experience for all of us here to see how this goes and there may be questions that come up – [Eric] Sounds great All right, thanks a lot – [Barb] All right, staff take it away – [Diana] Well, what’s presented in front of you is what the department heads have submitted – [Barb] So we’re looking at the summary document, or which document should we be looking at – [Diana] I guess, yep, and I can also, instead of making these packets, reams for each person, I thought I’d put it up on the screen The summary is all the 300 pages behind detail rolled up to the very, very, very high levels– – Right – [Diana] And again, we have three categories They’re all considered capital projects In most cases, at least, in the $5000 value it has a used life of a couple years or longer, we kind of break them into three categories: the major projects, and then we have equipment, and then we have fleet And the reason why the packet got so much larger is because every item that’s in this packet now should have a detail page behind it So that was some more questions that was asked the previous meetings, like when, and just wanting more details, and whether or not salvage value was in it, and what’s the age of it, and what’s the useful life on it? We still have a few holes Not every box has been filled in We filled in as much as we could down to the 10 that we was allotted, but there’s a lot more information in there so now that you can see this, you’ll see the grant summary, and right behind it then there’s three more summaries again, one for major, one complete, and one for equipment, and then behind it the details I’m not sure the next steps of the steps as a committee How would we want to go through this? The department heads have already put their requests in They’ve already put priorities They’ve put the details in why they, what, how, why they need it I don’t know if that, then we come back and have council ask questions Does the council want to have say in how prioritizing? – [Barb] I don’t know This is uncharted territory – [Diana] I would certainly open up to staff if anyone else has a recommendation – Sure – [Diana] I was hoping to see if we could put some groundwork together – [Barb] Do any staff members have any ideas on what you guys think would make the most sense of how we go about this? You’ve been working with this You’ve been dealing with that – [Eric] I think it would make sense for if department heads who are attending and feel comfortable, just to kinda provide a summary for– – [Barb] That would be very interesting – For the requests – [Barb] It would be – [Diana] One more thing, and I know we, I have the number on, as the mayor had said, our advisors had suggested that we should still try to stay around the general levy borrowing of eight million But this is a list of all needs This is, again, no funding sources yet So that eight million is what we would want, and we would wanna try to stay at what we would put in a budget If they’re grant dollars, if there is, that’s borrowing If we could put some of this on the levy in 2020 It’s a little early right now We’re still working on our 2020 budget We’ve just completed some, the salary portion We’re putting other expenses in We’re still putting revenues in Over the next couple weeks we will start rolling out the numbers and see whether or not there’s capacity in the 2020 budget to put any of this expenses back in Or, do you want to email rate increase, and try to put some of these items into the budget that would alleviate the amount that we had to borrow in 2020 for this So that’s why we’re not looking at the funding source at this point We are looking at, are these the true needs, and do we feel that these are things that we need in 2020? And so to have a better understanding what each department says they need – [Barb ] So looking, I know that 2022 is high, but 2021 is high – [Diana] Yep, and then they based them on what the mayor just said In 2020 there’s a million dollars in there to start the public safety building So, on the second page of the roll up for major there’s a million dollars in there for public safety building in 2020, so that could take it really down to eleven one if we took that portion out 2021, there’s 1.5 million in there for public safety,

and there’s 7.5 million in there for replenishment of fire station one and three – [Barb] Okay, that’s it – [David] Understanding that that’s a combined facility, not two separate buildings – [Diana] Correct So that would be nine million out of 24, which would bring it closer now to 15 million And then the third year, 2022, is where we’re seeing the bulk of the public safety building of 47 five We take that out, that would bring it down to 13, so we are looking at that top number on the summary page for the proposed general levy You’re looking at a little more like 11 million for 2020, 15 million for 2021, and 13 million for 2022 That is a little more, maybe obtainable, numbers to be looking at I probably should have did that summary – [Barb] Where’s that eight million dollar? Somebody said eight million dollars – [Diana] Right, it was a recommendation from our financial advisor to try to keep your levy somewhat flat, based on what you’re paying off that we should try to shoot for around eight million For 2019 I think we borrowed about 8.2 million that affected the levy, so we’re in that ballpark of the eight million As presented for 2020 right now, if I take the one million off of public safety, then we’re at 11 million one, and but that again, that doesn’t talk about funding source If we’re saying we would only want to shoot for about eight million on the levy or part of the budget – [Barb] And where would we get the other– – [Diana] Again, that would be potentially, could put some on, oh I apologize I said that wrong The eight million would be what we want to borrow, then could we make up the difference with a couple million of either grants and the funding source, or putting it on the budget as part of the levy – Got it – [Diana] I said that backwards, I apologize – [Barb] We’re still on pretty much page one, ish – [Bill] All these pages? – [Barb] 367 pages, but you missed all the question time, so I’m sorry (Bill and Barb murmuring) Did somebody, yes? – [Woman] Can I ask about the note rate? Have we increased that, the last count? How long has it been since we increased that? – Last year – [Diana] Three years ago it was at 8.86, and it would have been at 8.85 or 8.86 for several years right in a row, and then two years ago we went to 902, and this past year we went up to 916 So last two years we have taken a mill rate increase Prior to that it was pretty flat for many years – [Barb] Yes, Director Grenier – [Steve] From DDW’s perspective, if you look at both fleet and equipment, our needs are about $1.2 million combined per year for each of those two categories The lion’s share of what we have in major projects is bricks and mortar, road infrastructure projects, sewers, that kind of things But when we look at fleet and equipment that is our major equipment purchases So garbage truck replacements, things of that nature It’s in this document because what was requested are what are your total needs Historically, prior to the last two years, that was funded under the levy We had a line item– – Yes, right – [Steve] That was called city equipment usage, and that was about a 1.2 million dollar expenditure Now two years ago we ran into the issue of the wheel tags being discounted We bonded for equipment that year, and then in the 2019 budget, I know several other departments had their equipment moved to a bond issue Ours was not We simply lost the entire– – We’re still, it’s – [Steve] $1.2 million – Oh you lost it – [Steve] We did not replace any equipment at all this year – [Barb] So one important idea might be are we going to put the line item back in the regular budget? – [Steve] My proposal is to put that $1.2 million back into my budget request, but I guess we’re gonna have to look at what everybody else is requesting and– – [Barb] Right – [Steve Where that shoots out – [Barb] One reason that might make sense is because the equipment is, or do we just bond the equipment lasts? Because if the equipment is done before the bonding– is done – We’ve bonded for our equipment in a 2018 budget, because there was the miscounting of that two million dollars worth Mayor Smith thought that that two million dollars of real tax revenue was things that I already had in my budget when So he– – All right – [Steve] There was an issue and we wound up having to,

myself, police, fire, and parks wound up having to bond for equipment that normally would have been part of the budget issued – But how would real tax affect your budget, when real tax is only for road replacement? – [Steve] He mistakenly thought that that money was the same money that was counted in the budget somewhere else, not that it was brand new money – Oh, okay – [Steve] So he was counting on that someplace It got double counted, and it wasn’t So we had to move to a bond issue for the 2018 to buy our equipment Prior to that, we used to have that all included as equipment within the budget – [Bill] Okay – Now again– – And that wasn’t that long ago – [Steve] For ’19 some of the departments bonded for their equipment We did not We simply went without – [Bill] To me the overreaching thing is not to be picking through everything I mean, we need to pick through stuff, but the over, the big question is, how do we get all the departments onto the same page where levy and not bonding, is paying for a majority of this heavy equipment like ambulances and squad cars? You already have your budget figured out to cover the heavy equipment, right? – [Barb] No, if we give them the money to do that– – No – [Barb] They do – [Bill] From what I’m hearing, from which, aren’t you saying that you? – [teve] Prior to two years ago, yes, ours was built in– – Yes! – [Steve] As an operating expense – [Barb] Did the police always bond for police cars? – No, no, there was is what– – A couple years ago we also had police, fire, parks, also had capital equipment about two years ago It was removed because we– – I remember that, I remember that – [Diana] So and then the last few years the equipment has not been in the budget – [Barb] So bringing it back into the budget means we have money to the mill– – We have to have more tax dollars, to do it – So we need more tax dollars But it probably, it would be good for us to put it, I would think, to put it back into the general budget because then we’re not bonding so much – [Dan] Well, and I guess that I’m getting I know what my needs are, assuming everybody else’s needs are consistent on a proportional basis to what they were two years ago What we’re showing right now on this summary sheet as a bonding need, or you know, that 10 million number at the bottom of the page here – [Barb] Show us the number – [Steve] They were showing general levy, other fundings or levy impact of 12 million That, very likely– – [Bill] Second from last – [Steve] That 12 million dollars right now, assuming all things being equal, we’re looking at that 12 million dollars being borrowed for, right? – Correct, unless we can put some into our budget – And of that, probably two to two and a half million dollars of it, justifiably, should be back in the budget It’s offering made sense– – Just from you or from everybody? From everybody– – Correct – [Barb] From everybody, right? – [Steve] Yes If history is any guide to the future, what we bonded for a couple of years ago was about a two million dollar expense So if all departments were to go back to the way things were in say, 2016, how we were funding our equipment replacement and new equipment purchases, as a budget item, that would reduce that borrowing need from 12 million down closer to 10, 9.7 – [Barb] It would but we can’t raise, probably, the mill rate by that much – [Woman] How much can you? – [Barb] Diana, how– – [Diana] Again since it’s a little early we are not ready to talk about the budget and the funding source I thought were were going And what’s presented in front of you is the expense side – [Barb] The expenses – [Diana] Not how were gonna– – [Barb] So then we’re gonna have to figure out the revenue side – Out the revenue side So and again, all they’ve done when we talked about, this is really, we were hoping this would be an organizational meeting This is one of the first time we’re sitting down to look at it We pulled more detail together, got more information from the department heads to help explain their needs, and wanna decide how we wanna more forward Again, at this point, we don’t have a funding source A funding source is either going to be levy or it’s gonna probably be borrowing – Combination What we’re looking for is, every department’s giving us what they would really like to see for their department for the next five years – [Barb] So we’re not gonna really pick this all apart, right? – [Bill] I don’t – [Diana] I wouldn’t think so – [Bill] But I would hope we start laying a framework that, you know, kind of like we did with the bonding We really only talked about one year of a five year bonding plan – [Diana] Correct, we decided at some point to just more forward with the ’19, and then start attacking, and that’s why, within a month or two later, I’m bringing you back the next year, ’cause I don’t wanna wait ’til the very end – Right, right – Right – [Diana] We’re startin’ to tackle the next five– – [Bill] It would be nice to have an idea where we all wanna be in the year 2024, going to 2025, where we wanna be with our staffing, our equipment, our buildings, and everything else Figuring out how we get there – [Barb] I think that (Barb chuckling) we got that But I guess, in my brain it’s like, how the heck are we gonna get there, all right, we can’t even – [Diana] When we’re getting there, I would add this on for Alder Galvin

Included in this proposal also, is the public safety building, and a replacement of fire station one and three into another, one more building, and so those larger dollars are included in ’20 A million in ’20, nine million in ’21, and in ’22 there’s a 47 million dollars Mayor had suggested that those are items that we need to put on another list, that at this point, we maybe should not be tackling them, and so that would reduce this cost But those are true needs that are out there, that we need right now – [Bill] There are true needs out there, I’m sure, every department head feels, as you from the discussions we had at the bonding They all felt all those needs were, I mean, no one rolled over and said, sure just take this away from me, I really didn’t need it, and this is what we’re gonna run into in all this The PD’s down 14 bodies Fire’s down a couple bodies and equipment DPW had a bond for equipment that they usually had levy money for Parks and forestry– – Why did we take that out? – [Bill] Has been takin’ it, and they got hit this year hard, so there’s a lot of stuff, there’s a lot of needs out there How do we get back to where we were? It does no good to point fingers how we got here other than to learn from our past mistakes, but we need to make up the cuts from last year, and from the year before, although we didn’t lose any bodies the year before, we lost equipment into bondment, and that can be a slow death I mean, it’s necessary, if you’re gonna build a building, like if you’re gonna buy a house, you take out a long-term loan, but there’s a lot of stuff in the bonding that should be part of the levy And I think we need to develop I think we need to get back to the bonding, and get the other four years done, and we need to start on this to get this five year plan done From there, the mayor, and I’m not throwin’ this on your shoulders like it’s all your deal, but it’s your deal, to start deciding levy bonding, grant work, I mean, I sounds like the state’s coming forth with some money now, possibly, for roads So I mean, these are all things that can help out, but we may still be having to make some hard decisions downt he road I just hate that budget meeting in what is it, October, November, where we’re takin’ $250 from the law department library, and we’re not sending someone to a conference for $500 dollars, and at the end of the whole thing, we’ve saved $37,500, and it sounds ridiculous when you’re looking at $120 million budget I’ve always said if you really wanna make cuts, you have to do like what the PD did, and take a 14 man hit That’s how you do it, and to do that, you’ve gotta get rid of major programs, and is the city willing to do that? I mean, we’ve seen the nipping and the cutting over the years The park department, the parkies work less hours than they used to, they have less parks with parkies in it They don’t open the bathrooms anymore unless there’s an event or there’s a parkie there There’s all these little things throughout the city Fire Department, Police, everyone that’s cut these little things that people kinda grumble about, but there’s been no human cry about these missing services But if we want this community to thrive and grow, we’ve gotta figure out a way of getting us back on track to being more progressive with the services that we offer – [Woman] Right, right – [Barb] But right now we’re not talking to talk about funding – [Steve] Right – [Barb] So, Diane go ahead – [Diana] Yeah, and again, I believe that we got some input from the council that they wanted to have more input one what projects are being added and in what year So really, what’s being redundant in front of you is what the department heads have requested, and so I don’t – [Barb] What page should we? There’s so many pages – [Bill] We should probably go through department by department– – Yeah, the problem is that is not, yes, we certainly can go department by department Then I would suggest that you would pick a department, go through their major, go through their fleet, and go through their equipment, and then we go through each department that way – [Barb] Okay, does that sound like the best way to do it? – [Diana] Yes – [Barb] Okay! – [Woman] That would be the – Yes – [Woman] Bigger projects, right? – [Barb] Alder – [Bill] If I could just maybe offer up a couple of thoughts, and I think one is, I think it’s probably imperative that the committee have a philosophical discussion about what gets bonded versus what goes on the levy I think that’s a really important discussion To Director Grenier’s point, there’s a little bit of inconsistency with how certain equipment is handled, and I think if we don’t have certain standards with how things like that get handled, we’re gonna continue to bond for them because it’s an easy way to do it, and so I think Alder Galvin’s right We’re gonna have to start making some tough decisions at some point We are in the situation that we are, and I think it starts with a philosophical discussion, which ultimately leads to policy, or direction on how we handle the way that we expense certain types of things In an ideal world I can envision a scenario where we should bond for things that get replaced on a recurring basis That just doesn’t make sense to me – Right, right, yeah – [Man] It costs us more money in the long run, so how do we get there – [Barb] We were heading down that path, but then I felt like you pulled us back and said, really, right now isn’t the time to have that discussion

There should be that discussion, but right now we’re just supposed to be learning about what the needs are, what the requests are? ‘Cause we were headin’ down there – [Man] And that could be the case, which follows up to my second question that I just– – Okay – [Man] A point that I wanna make And I appreciate that, I guess that we’ve come here with the expense side of things, and that’s a great start For me, when I envisioned a five year capital equipment plan, I don’t know how you begin to have a discussion about how you manage your expenses when you don’t know what the income side is, and I do think that is a very critical piece of the five year plan Again, I can appreciate the fact that that might not have been clear But I do think we should make it clear, that for us to really have a competent five year plan, we need to understand the revenue side, and part of that is, what does our mill rate look like over the next five years, and how does that, how do levy limits come into play? When are certain bonds getting paid off? The expiration of certain TIDS I mean, we have to understand all that to understand what we can even afford to pay for – [Bill] I mean, and, I think he makes a good point For us to take every department and have them go through all their needs, and then have Eric go in October, hey, lookin’ down the road this is all we’re gonna have coming in, this is the max we’ll be able to do our levy every year So the max we’ll be able– – Yes So now what do we cut? – to do our mill rate And now there’s no money for some of this, so then we gotta go back to ’em again, and say all right, we either gotta cancel out a combination of capital improvements and bonding items, or cut more manpower, or things like that – Okay, I just thought today was to have a more clear understanding of what all of the needs were without this I didn’t think this was a decision-making time – [Bill] And I, no, I don’t either, but I think what he, you know, we can certainly look– – I think it needs to be referred back – At what the capital improvements are now Certainly look at what they are requesting now, but we need to have some information, or some meeting time spent on how much are we gonna have and where’s it coming from? – [Barb] I just thought it wasn’t this meeting, but it can be this meeting – Not, and it doesn’t have to be, Barb My point is that it probably should be a 2.0, right? That we give staff whatever time they need to be able to come back with that piece And let me just, an example to illustrate that – [Barb] Okay – [Man] One of the things that RDA is talking about, you know, you were there – I was there – [Man] I mean, is do we extend certain TIDS for the low-income housing? And that’s a very noble thing, and generally I’ve been supportive of that, however, we have a long list of other expenses we’re talking about Does it make more sense for us to put that on the levy to look at other things, or does it make more sense for us to look at that? And I think we can’t even begin to have that discussion if we don’t understand the numbers in their entirety We’re looking at pieces of all of this, and we’re not looking at the whole thing Never, in my time that I’ve been here, have we looked at the whole thing I feel like I’m making uninformed decisions every day I come to council – Well this is, I mean this is the start of that process, right? – Right, that’s what I’m saying – [Eric] There hasn’t been a council improvement plan put together in seven, eight years – So and again, timing-wise, if that’s what we had recommended, this would be a organizational meeting, let’s talk about procedure, what policies we wanna put in place I did say it’s too early to discuss 2020 budget We’re weeks away from knowing where we’re rolling up at, but as you know, by the time we get that number, we’re at the end of September, early October, and that gives us three weeks to crunch it all together and put a budget document together That doesn’t allow us a time to start looking at the expenses, and the information that’s in our document, so that is why I wanted to get this meeting started knowing, if you see, I do not have, I don’t even have you the option to make a decision, or to– – Right – Approve anything– – Right, it was – [Diana] It was never meant to be a final meeting This was meant to be an opening meeting to get us for one, even fire department has moved down the line to what are our next steps Of course, funding source is definitely one of our next steps – Right But what is our first step? What exactly are we gonna do here today? In a perfect meeting, in your mind, what were you thinking we were gonna do here today? – [Diana] I guess I was lookin’ for direction Who is making the priority? If the department has put it in, are we leaving as-is? Is anyone reviewing and deciding that the department had, everything that’s in 2020 stays? – [Barb] Well, it probably can’t, but we don’t know what the funding source is yet, so – [Bill] So, do we learn about capital improvements today, have another meeting to review, get a little more information on the, well we know what they want for bonding, so learn about capital improvement today, learn about funding and like Ryan said, the overall picture, so we’re not saying, oh yeah, this is really a neat thing, and then two weeks later at another meeting go, oh mean we never should have voted for that, because this is more important, and now we’re gonna have to cut this I mean, so as Brian’s saying,

we need to have at some point, look at this whole picture of bonding, capital improvements funding, in one big picture-type meeting, so that we can start saying well, the way this is lookin with the mill rate, with the levy, grants, all this other stuff This is what we have to work with This is what we’ve decided on – [Barb] Okay, but it started, it seems like it’s starting with here’s what we feel as departments, we will need over the next five years So I thought I was coming in here to hear from the departments of, here’s, specifically, here’s what we think we’re gonna need, and why we’re gonna need it, which would give me, maybe the information I need to make a funding decision But am I off base on that? – [Diana] Or on the other side, is that our priority, every single department head is going to say their item is a priority – [Barb] So somebody has to, council usually decides, right? We decide at the budget meeting, don’t we? – [Eric] Well, and like I said, I think it’s appropriate for the department heads to sort of run through their list to give you a sense for what they’re asking for, what’s behind that request The way that I have been thinking about squaring the circle, and Alder Galvin, and Alder Johnson missed these comments but, what I had said was I think we need kind of a supplemental true accounting of what the needs are, right? Some sort of appendix to the capital improvement plan, which is the realistic plan that we have for the next five years, and one that supplements that by saying, we need a public safety center, and we need to figure out how to do that with additional tools from the state level, something ‘Cause with the current existing tools that we have at our disposal, we can’t do that in the next five years But, we need to have an honest conversation of what the true needs of the community are So, that’s the way that I have tried to, like I said, square that circle in my mind, and I’m hoping that the council would agree with that method of tackling that conflict, because it’s clear that we are not gonna be able to address our actual needs in these next five years – [Barb] With the money that we currently have – [Eric] That should be public I mean, that should be a real public conversation that we’re having with the citizens of Green Bay, so they understand what our plan is, in the next five years, but also understanding that we really need to do more, and we’re falling behind if we’re not doing these things – [Barb] Chief Litton, I would like to hear your wisdom at this point What would you like to talk about in this meeting? – [David] I think everybody’s already covered all of this I mean, I really, I think if we just give a quick explanation, I don’t think it has to be, you’ve got the lists in front of you I think most of it’s self-explanatory, like the bigger ticket items, the fire stations, the police, public facility Those are big ticket items We already covered that Everything else, it’s really on our lists, I guess, is the fire department has eight facilities, nine facilities that we take care of, right? So there’s a lot of things in those, things that have to be replaced Our stations are, our newest station is 1990? – [Eric] Probably late 90’s, like 2000 – [David] All right, so our newest stations 20 years old, our oldest stations are 90 years old They’re not designed for 90 year use So you’re seein’ in that facilities needs or in the equipment needs, you’re seein’ a lot of things, HVAC systems, and exhaust systems that have to be replaced, they just wore out, and that’s kinda what you’re seein’ So, I think that every department just kinda runs through and says this is what it is and give you an explanation of it, and answer your questions – [Barb] Commander Warych, what do you think? – [Kevin] You know, a lot of us just really, the police department, just explained, will explain, the reasons why we need the equipment, and it’s very similar to what Chief Litton just mentioned In some of the day-to-day operations, what we face, the problems we’re facing, and the problems that we anticipate going forward, and our plan in the next five years to replace really is the equipment Putting the public safety building aside, kind of what the mayor mentioned, just, I can give you a rundown on the equipment in my – [Barb] How about Director Ditscheit? – [Dan] Well, on our end, just real briefly, so I didn’t tackle any major campaigns here to kind of add to the park So what this five year capital campaign has done for us is just take care of basic needs So there’s a lot of facilities that are old and out of date, a lot of pavement that needs to be replaced It’s just taking care of basically what we have with some very small initiatives here and there So at some point in the near future, we’re gonna be updating our outdoor rec plan, and as part of that we’re gonna have a public input process to see what other needs are out there that the public desires For example, is there a desire or a need in the community for a community recreation center? I know that it’s something that almost every community has in Wisconsin,

except for Green Bay Is that something that warrants discussion, and really a demand for the public or by the public? So we really need to get a little bit of public input before we start proposing some of our major potential projects So, right here in my plan, you’ll only see basic needs, and that goes for equipment and also our capital projects – [Barb] So even the whole five years out, it’s just basic needs – [Dan] It’s basic needs, and really, we could use a lot more money As every department will tell you the same thing – Right – [Dan] Like I said, our parks are, I think, when you compare ’em to other parks, they’re average parks, and at what level do you want our parks as a community? Do you want average, or do you want a park that stands out above and beyond the surrounding communities? And that’s the level that you have to set your capital improvement plan to try to get to Right now it’s, what my plan is, is status quo and replacing what really needs to be replaced And as far as equipment, I think, on our end, we were a little bit different than Steve Steve always had his equipment in the budget from year-to-year basis On the park’s end, year-to-year, it was either not funded, or it was funded in the budget, or it was funded in the bond So if it would get cut from the budget, we would then put it in our bond request, and sometimes it made it through, and sometimes it didn’t So on a year-to-year basis, the parks department really didn’t know where that funding was coming from, or the equipment So, I don’t think there was a consistency there So what you’ll see in our plan is, every year, right now it’s all in our bond request, or our capital improvement request, year-to-year for all of our equipment needs Do I think that that is more appropriate than our budget? Yes, it’s just can we make that work and stay consistent with that from year to year – [Barb] Okay – [Eric] That’s another issue – [Barb] And Director Renier-Wigg? – [Cheryl] You know, we’re the small fish here – [Barb] Okay (Barb chuckling) – [Cheryl] That being said though, we have inspection vehicles, really are what we have on the list there So even though we’re the small fish, we have two of them on life support right now, that public works has red-tagged, and then brought them back to life for us, so really it’s just replacing inspection vehicles on a regular basis And we’ve not done that for a while, so we’ve bene limpin’ along but Some police vehicles that are, we hear bad stories about some police vehicles – [Barb] Yes You can see the pavement– – They’re rustin’ out – [Barb] Through the floorboards I heard that story – [Cheryl] Well not to mention, you know, we’re driving to places and telling people to clean up their properties, and you know, mufflers are bad, all that stuff so, doesn’t look so great for the city But something that was brought up in the past, though, actually Chief Litton was, have we ever considered renting vehicles instead of purchasing them? Is there a cost savings to do something like that so we’re not continually replacing these vehicles? Can we rent them– – [Bill] Well I know the PD was renting motorcycles, weren’t you? – [Kevin] Yeah, we still lease motorcycles every two years we get two motorcycles It’s a lease – So it’s like– – So is that something that a leased car – We’d consider for fleets, you know, inspections, public works That’s, he parks those vehicles, and I don’t know if that’s cost effective – I have a leased car I don’t feel like I’m saving any money First time I ever got a lease, but I don’t know – Yeah, and I don’t know if that’s a cost savings or not, compared to how often you have to replace the vehicles – [Barb] So have you? Are we ready? Go ahead – [David] On the fire side of things, there’s a lot of research out there on leasing a fleet, and in many cases, it’s actually cost-effective to lease the fleet, turning them over every set amount of years, or reselling them at, when you can still get value out of them, and it helps reduce your maintenance costs along the way, and it absolutely eliminates, or doesn’t eliminate, but it greatly reduces your out-of-service time Every time you have a vehicle that goes out of service, that’s a service problem for the city When it’s down it’s not available for response, and so– – If it’s under warranty they fix it, you don’t – [David] And you have to have a larger reserved fleet, because you have to be able to put vehicles back in, too You have to put something in service, you take the fire engine out of service, you can’t leave a hole in the city, so we have to have a reserve fleet for that So there’s a lot of studies out there, that kinda say that if maybe, in many areas it is cost-effective – [Barb] Okay – [Diana] I think that would be something I would have to ask the department heads, to know their equipment, and see if a lease option is available That’s just something I don’t think finance would be able to handle – No, right – [Diana] That is something that the chief has mentioned before I guess I would ask then, the chief to go explore that option Again, the idea of then, you’re gonna have level, even payments in your operating budget You don’t have that large output of money at one point

You don’t have to worry about replacement You could probably reduce your reserves, as you just said There are probably a lot of benefits to it, but I think I would need the department heads to look at whether it’s renting large equipment in the forestry, or in the DPW, if those are options, I would ask the department heads to research them You might be around newer equipment, and get more of it sooner, if you’re leasing it at a lower cost on a yearly basis – [Barb] But here’s what also wouldn’t happen, though You wouldn’t be able to like, put off buying vehicles for a year Like sometimes we’ve patched up our budget, but going, oh we just won’t like Steve just did But if we were leasing, you’d have to guarantee that money was in that budget every year, right? – [Diana] Right – [Barb] So, because, and maybe that is a good thing – [Diana] But then it’s considered operational, right It would be an annual cost – [Barb] So do we want to hear a little more deeply from each department person? – [Steve] Right – [Barb] Okay, Director Grenier, I think we’ll let you start – [Steve] Well, with the major projects, the lion’s share, all but $140,000 worth of our requests, was for street reconstruction and resurfacing projects That’s infrastructure – [Bill] Okay, lemme ask you a quick question – [Bill] How much does a grader cost? Just throw a figure out there It doesn’t have to be knots on – [Steve] Right now, between $185,000, $220,000 – [Bill] So, would that not be in major capital projects? – No that would be under fleet – [Bill] Under fleet? – Yes – Yep – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] Oh, cause it’s divided into these different – [Steve] So what you see is the name of the project, okay Similar to what Dan was saying, this is not looking at expanding the program This is not looking at doing more streets than what we’re doing This is looking at holding the line to status-quo – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] And using is, and the wheel tax money, is that in there? – [Bill] Offsetting it? – [Steve] We’re not looking at ribbons We’re looking at what the expenses are – Right amount You’re right, you’re right Sorry, thank you – Okay – [Barb] Always pull me back – [Bill] So this is what you’re looking to spend on streets, and you’ve got a few other small things in here – [Steve] Right, about $140,000 note I have a larger need for my buildings Our buildings are every bit as old as the fire stations – [Bill] Well you’ve got 1.93 for west shop, main building, HVAC system, fire in the year 2021 – [Steve] Yeah, so that’s what our needs are I don’t expect to spend all that – [Bill] Because? – [Steve] Because I expect to be cut back – [Bill] Well we’re asking right now, what’s your– – [Steve] If you’re asking me what I need, that’s what you’re seeing – [Bill] Okay – [Steve] Because of the age of our buildings, as well – [Barb] So it makes sense to go through this major capital projects, DPW, then fire, just like it is, so we’re not flipping through this document– – Yep – [Barb] All crazy, okay – [Steve] So I mean, and as the chief explained earlier, these things are pretty self-explanatory – [Barb] Yeah – [Steve] Our needs on our buildings, came from likely the same place that theirs did A few years back we had complete a building evaluation study, with short, medium, and long-term needs These basically are the immediate term needs, things that are, critical systems that are in danger of failure – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] Okay – [Steve] So that’s the origin of where our stuff came from – [Barb] So the next one would be then, fire, right? – [Bill] Yeah – [David] I’ll just echo, and you’ll see that there’s 566,000 and some change there The Plymovent systems that you see there, those are the vehicle exhaust systems They are required because there has benzene which is a cancer causing agent, in diesel exhaust, so all of our stations have to have these exhaust systems that are attached to the vehicles when they start it up, so it takes the exhaust out of the stations, and does not pollute the station – [Barb] Right – [David] So those are all in the area of 20 plus years old, and they are all beat up and we’re spending a ton of money maintaining them– – [Barb] Okay – [David] When we can get parts, so they’re due to be completely replaced as they’re dangerous kind of in that area Then you’ll just see a couple of small paving projects, aprons in front of the stations there, garage doors that need to be replaced at the shop Got an HVAC system, these buildings, this shop building’s 34, 40 years old, 45 years old so, all things, it just needs to be replaced, and you’ve got some windows and some flooring, and just basic maintenance stuff that really – [Barb] There’s a big one for $7 million – [David] That’s the following year – [Barb] That’s the following year, right Oh, we’re going each year – [David] Are we going each year or– – [Barb] I thought you kind of did general – [Diana] 7.5 is what– – [David] So that 7.5 million is, so station one, is our administrative station now, and station three is the station on Shawano Both of them are approaching 90 years old They are just beyond useful lives

They are beat up and crumbling, falling apart And our, originally, the discussion was is that administration would go into the police building, the policy facility, but honestly I think it’s better that, we not be in the same building They have some other kind of tenants they’ve been looking at I don’t wanna talk for them but – [Barb] Oh, okay, that’s the first I’ve heard that – There are some potential other suitors to go in that building with them, and our thought is to reduce our footprint by one building, so take our station one, and the station three that needs replacing and put administration in a wing or on a floor, if you will, at a new station three site to be determined – [Barb] You wouldn’t keep it at the old station three site? – [David] Absolutely not, because it’s sitting on a slough right now, and basically that was an infill from the river, and Steve’s got pictures of it in his office – [Barb] Okay – [David] So it’s in a, it’s not in a suitable environment There’s not enough parking there So we really, you’re gonna see a request coming from me, and probably David at the next finance meeting, or the one after that for $20,000 to do a GAS study, and a HEAP assessment study for all of the fire stations where they’re laid out, just for planning for the future We have that money in a current building account right now So you’ll see that in the future I wanna be able to, very shortly here, wanna be able to look at what’s going on 20 years out, where the stations should be as we start replacing them – [Barb] So the original envision of having you guys in with, in the police building, is that to save money? No, that wasn’t to save money Celestine would know what that was for – [David] My thing you know, it’s more of public relations, so that kind of a front so, to gain some support for the building They need the building There’s absolutely no word about that They have exactly the same needs that we have in the fire department for those two stations so, my thought is, is that we would reduce our footprint by one building so, they’re taking care of nine, we’re taking care of eight – [Barb] Okay – [David] And you know, there’s economy of scales in building up instead of building out– – [Barb] Yes – [David] So we’d probably be looking at building a two-story building for station three, getting the crews there, their own separate place, but give the administration a separate quarters of the floor above, or something of that nature But we have to have, we have to spend some money to figure that all out, basically – [Bill] Don’t you store rigs at station one? – [David] We do have some reserved apparatus there, yes – [Bill] So station three would have to be considerably bigger, garage space wise – [David] Yeah, and it’s not real expensive to build that space Expensive space is, obviously, office space and the living quarters We’ve got Badger Sheet Metal still That’s still a consideration but, yeah, we definitely would wanna look We wanna do the study, because we wanna look and see if we should move ladder six, which is out on Mason over to a new station three, wherever that might get located, or wherever that works better from the response standpoint, so that’s why I need to spend some money, to be able to figure out the best possible location, for the next 50, 60, 75 years – [Bill] And then there would be some income Well, I guess if we combine the headquarters and station three, and the reserve vehicles all in one spot, that gives us the opportunity to unload Badger Sheet Metal, station one, and station three – [David] And station one and three, if you think about it, they might make great little micro breweries They might make a great little restaurant They might, there’s a lot of different things– – Historical, maybe – [David] Yeah, that put some money into it As Director Grenier said, we had the study done The immediate needs in the fire department were $660,000 five years ago That number’s probably 1.5 million right now, and they’ve been, that’s just the immediate, code-violated problems that we have in our facilities, and then if you look at the intermediate and the long-term, I think there was four, five, six, seven, eight million dollars just put in to all the stations – [Bill] Right – [David] Just in the fire department so, that didnt include public works, the city hall, parks and recs buildings They went through them all – [Bill] Has there been a study done, and I’m not trying to do this police fire thing that everyone always accuses me of, because I do enough of it that I really will get to it but, I mean, is there not a floor here at city hall that’s empty? Am I wrong, am I right, yes, no? – [Woman] It has files – It has files– – A lot of files, yeah – [Bill] So I think to myself, and not trying, could not your whole administration fit in that floor, and save us a cost of an administration floor on a new building? Or does it make more sense because we anticipate city government growing into that floor? So it would make more sense having your administration, if we’re gonna need the room to put ’em in one building? – [David] We looked at that pretty extensively, and my determination is, is that it needs to be separated, operationally, from what we do as far as training, to bringing people in to centralized locations when we have to have them face-to-face, and things of that nature Crews stop in to administration trying to park out in the streets out here on a regular, routine basis

It just, from an operational standpoint, sets us back – [Bill] Okay, so whatever footprint you have is going to be considerably bigger than either station three or one occupies right now? I mean just vehicle-wise, ’cause you’re gonna have staff staffing the station, you’re gonna have staff for the administration building, and then you’re gonna have more vehicles parked right in that area, so I mean– – Potentially, I mean– – Yeah – [David] And you know, we don’t have to necessarily build a fancy base or reserve apparatus– – Oh, absolutely! – [David] We might be better off building a whole building for that someplace else in the city, right? Get rid of Badger Sheet Metal and put up, ’cause I know DW has new space need, and I know the police have space need, so we’ve definitely got space need– – well, and that’s why I’m thinking if we’re gonna do it, we might as well do it right, and I guess do that study because, it’s been nothing but a pain having police vehicles parked all over the city, and then having to collect them when you need ’em, instead of having them centrally located where you have staff that can just get in and go – [David] It’s the same problem that, I think, all of our departments face – Okay – All right, so anything else under fire, before we go to parks and rec? I think everything else is pretty self-explanatory – [David] I wanna say that, a majority of that stuff should just probably be on a regular operating budget I’d be supportive of not getting bonding That’s my opinion – Okay, well, and that would be the dream – [David] Sure – [Bill] To get all this stuff into the regular levy – [Barb] All right, parks, rec, and forestry – [Dan] I’m not gonna say too much about equipment or replacement, unless you have specific questions on each individual piece but, basically for almost all of it, the pieces of equipment are 15 to 20 years old, really hit its life span, and it’s just time to replace them, but if you wanna talk about individual ones, we can talk about it – [Bill] Let’s talk Perkins Park $600,000 for soccer fields and baseball diamonds, and understanding Perkins Park, where would you put soccer fields that they’re not gonna be in the water? – [Dan] Well, do you wanna talk per year or do you wanna talk as a whole? – [Bill] I’m just looking at this as a whole – [Dan] Okay, so Perkins Park where we’re redeveloping that whole west end of the park, we did a master plan maybe seven, eight years ago – [Bill] That’s where the ball diamonds are currently – [Dan] That’s where the ball diamonds are right now Those ball diamonds on up shaft, so in 2019, we funded through the bond request, consolidating at Colburn, and creating a little league complex there So as part of that, we’re eliminating a baseball field at Colburn, to accommodate the little league request that we’ve already funded The baseball group really wants two baseball fields right next to each other at Perkins So there’s a demand to have ’em right next to each other So the 370 is to build a baseball field at Perkins, which fits in with the master plan for Perkins Park So it’ll replace a field that really isn’t getting used ever over there For the soccer fields, where the two existing little league fields are to the left, those would go away ’cause they wouldn’t be needed anymore, and you would build two soccer fields there So it’s kind of finishing up the master plan for Perkins Park, and taking care of a lot of athletic needs all at once – [Bill] Okay – [Dan] I’m readin’ it right down the list here, there are a couple, a few projects, annual sports complex, $300,000 – [Bill] Could we go year by year That would be easier for me – Sure, sure So Finger Road, a concession stand with restrooms So ever since that facility was built, it’s been built on a landfill The user groups have really pushed hard to donate a concession stand with restrooms out there In fact, we had a meeting today on that, with the mayor and Steve sat in on that We’re getting close to the point where the DNR will elect them, will allow them to build that concession stand, but based on past precedents, for similar type concession stands, the city typically pays for the utilities, leading to that concession stand, and that’s where our big bulk of the cost would come from, and that’s what we’re asking for, money for that, but because it is on a landfill, there are additional construction costs associated with it, that’s why it’s a fairly high number Wildlife Sanctuary floating boardwalk replacement, that’s that boardwalk that goes between the Nature Center and the Observation building That is literally falling apart, and every year we’re just kind of piecing it together We have to get rid of that wood structure and get an aluminum structure in there Something that is more durable, that’ll last longer and is safer Sanctuary Nature center security and safety upgrades We have quite a few Because the nature center and the buildings

that are out there are 20, 30 years plus old now, we’re getting a lot of things failing out there, so a lot of the security exit lighting doesn’t work anymore The alarms are outdated They’re original to the building They’re almost unserviceable now So we’d lii to replace the alarms, we’d like to fix the code issues, and there’s just a few other miscellaneous things, we would like to do out there for safety and security And then we have several roof replacements on shelters Those roofs are gettin’ old They’ll be replacing it with new asphalt shingles Those will reduce the cost of the materials, and then our park crews would install it Baird Creek Greenway, a new bridge We’ve been talking for a good couple of years about an issue that we’re having with the railroad and people crossing the railroad at an unapproved crossing location Putting a bridge in there will alleviate a lot of the safety concerns with people crossing that track, and it kinda deals with circulation issues, too So it solves a lot of things all at once The Baird Creek Preservation Foundation is chipping in on that They have allocated some dollars to it, and we have a pending grant that has been applied for with the DNR for that So this would be kind of the match to all of that Gagnon Park playground equipment So this is one where over time, and we know it’s tough to fit in within our allocated allotment for what we typically bond for, but, just so you know, we have 60 playgrounds I think 58 playgrounds in our park system So if we wanna do a 30 year replacement plan, we have to replace two playgrounds every year If we wanna do a 20 year replacement plan, we have to do three playgrounds every year As you can see in our request here, we don’t do two or three every year We’re getting a little behind In our plan, we are gonna start to get a little more consistent as the years go on We’re trying to maintain that, to at least do two a year And then we have one other request for 2020, which is joined state park improvements Over the past five or six years there’s an event that goes on out at the skate park, where it’s a fundraising event to do improvements to the skate park, and expand it to get more features out there Over the past five years, they’ve crowd fundraised 30 or $35,000 out there, so this would be kind of to add to that, and kinda finish that project up It’s been something that’s kind to lend ’em a hand about, or that facility to add to it and add more activities out there So that would be for this year, or for the 2020 request Would you like to go into other years then, too? – [Barb] No, I don’t think we need to do every single item – No, I don’t think so – No, ’cause – [Dan] Okay, in the future what you’ll see is kind of less new things and more maintenance type things A lot more pavement replacing, more playground replacing, et cetera – [Bill] When you’re replacing the shelters, I know that Astor Park just got a very nice new shelter, but no furnace, duct work, but no furnace I mean, this is this cutting, and I don’t think that’s cutting fat when we cut something like that It makes that shelter inoperable 365 days a year, and we have ice skating rink right there, so there’s no shelter for anyone to use when they use that park in the winter time Is this where we’re going with all our parks in the future, or is this something we just did to make due or? It’s a philosophy I think that we have to have as a community is what do we want? And obviously you don’t advertise it Hey, we’re building this new shelter in there, but there’s not gonna be any heat in it You know, you just wait ’til someone says can we rent the shelter for an ice skating thing, you say sorry can’t, ’cause there’s no heat in it – [Dan] Well, I mean heating the shelter is an additional expense you have to add to the budget I know that decision was made by the previous director Can we reevaluate it for Astor? I know at a minimum we designed it so we can easily add heat in the future, so we don’t have to do a major renovation, so we accommodated the building that way – [Bill] But I guess what I’m asking, what is our, I mean obviously budget is affecting our policies, and what we’re offering to the public

I mean, if we keep cutting do we quit painting crosswalks on the streets because it’s too expensive and time consuming? We don’t have the staff, or the money for the paint Do the police quit doing things, or the fire department quits doing things? And I think at some point here, and again, I’m not pointing fingers or anything, we need to start, and this is why I’m glad we’re sitting here talking through what you see for your capital improvement, in these over five year plan We have to get a real grasp of where we wanna go to as a city, and if we have to, we need to start biting the bullet on some things, either to raise the levy and upset people because they have to pay more taxes, or upset the people because there’s gonna be some services they’ve grown to depend on, and it’s not gonna be there anymore? And so I guess as we go forward, I wanna be aware of, when a department has had to come to the decision of, I’m not puttin’ a furnace in this building, because we just can’t afford it We’re tapped out, we’ve bonded out, or we’re levied out as much as we can and this is the way it is And I mean, so I guess I’m asking department heads, be up front with us and tell us, I mean you guys fought hard for that weight equipment I sure gave you a hard time on that, but you had good explanations why it should stay in there, and I’m sure as many people would uh, whatever, but that’s what we need going forward If we’re not gonna have open shelters for ice rinks, fine, yeah, we don’t need heat in ’em, but if that’s something that the other shelters have, but this one doesn’t because we didn’t have the money, and now we gotta try and scratch it up years later and install it, it’s just a reduction Those little reductions that people don’t really notice at first until it’s all gone So I guess I’m just asking for you guys, when you’re putting these things in, to really be able to explain why you think we need to have it, what the long-term goals are – [Dan] Sure – [Bill] Thank you – [Barb] So the next part, I don’t know I mean you have city hall I mean that’s kind of self-explanatory, right? – [Dan] I mean, city hall we have some basic needs coming up – Needs more work, and then you don’t have to go through – [Dan] The real thing is the roof is getting to a point where it needs to be replaced, and it actually isn’t that expensive to do it In consideration, I would have expected it to be a much higher number than what a roofing company told us it would be But the other thing to keep into consideration is the electric in the building is really We’re at our capacity It doesn’t meet code – Whoa – [Dan] We’re having some issues, and it’s something that we can’t hold out much longer, but until we have a consultant evaluate it, this is just a placeholder at 750 I have no idea if that’s– – I see – [Dan] Close or not In the 20, in the last bond request, we allocated dollars to hire a consultant So, we will be doing that over the next few months, and then we’ll be able to put a dollar amount So that 750 may go up, it may go down, after that study is done, but – [Barb] Is the elevator already paid for? – [Dan] What? – [Barb] Is the elevator already– – The elevator– – It’s covered – [Dan] Is covered already – [Barb] It’s covered It’s gonna start pretty soon? – [Dan] It’ll be starting in the next few weeks I believe – [Barb] Oh yeah – [Bill] Kathy’s been doing the stairs on this since she got stuck – [Dan] Those are the two biggest needs for city hall Obviously there’s a lot of other ones that you know everybody also has some remodeling requests too, which may just add it on in future years but those are the two big ones – [Barb] Okay, and then please, there’s very little here – [Diana] In this case it’s only the public safety building and the major items – [Barb] That’s all so we’ll move on to the next – [Bill] Well can I just ask quickly Million dollars is for? – [Man] Land acquisition – [Bill] And a million and a half, the next year? – [Diana] I think that was just meant for design for consultant– – Okay – [Diana] And then to get a bid ready I think those were some of the preliminary steps – [Bill] Okay, so if this doesn’t go forward then that’s It would behoove you guys to have plan B on capital improvements – [Man] Correct, and we have taken the approach that, in five years we could potentially have a code safety building I can tell you that the PD is in need of a new roof, ’cause they need a new HVAC So we have a lot of same requests that other city buildings are facing So, we can put that list together We can develop that plan B – [Bill] I certainly think you do, because if we look at the decision making process, do we go with the new building or not, and we need to know, or if we don’t, then you have to have those things ready when we need to understand why, and if we’re goin’ like this, we need to look at what your needs are If we don’t replace it versus the needs if we do, so – [Man] We will get that done – [Bill] All right, thank you – [Barb] Okay, so and we’re gonna skip the funding sources part, right? – [Diana] Those are other expenses that are planned, they just don’t happen to be general levy

And the shipyard is a project that we’re moving forward with We have spaced it out It’s in phases on the growth of that container park And again, that is 100% funded by TIF, so it would not affect the levy, so it’s still that these are true expenses, again, that’s why it’s in the list Parking ramp repairs are an ongoing repair that the director has, works on every year, funded by the park and utility, sanitary, and storm, also are done by user fees and these are their recommendations or suggestions as to how much expenses they need for those future years – [Bill] Question on storm source You just and INS had a big meeting about storm sewers backing up, streets being flooded I didn’t watch that whole video, but people are asking for, what are the solutions? We’ve been hearing that for a long time When I got elected the first time which is gonna be four years ago this coming April, it was we need $100 million Do we have a plan to improve our storm sewers so our streets quit flooding, or okay We can’t plan– – One question at a time – [Bill] Do we have a long-term plan, or some kind of a plan, to alleviate most of the flooding on our city streets when we have major downpours? – No – [Bill] So this $100 million dollar figure was just something someone was shootin’ around or? – [Man] It was an order of magnitude estimate that was asked for, so that’s what we provided The short answer is, we could And what that represented was our best estimate to take our existing storms sewers from the current design criteria of a 10 year storm, up to a 25 year storm, okay? The storms we’ve been getting are in excess of 25s – [Bill] And is there a solution to that? – [Man] Even at a 25 year side, if we were to go from a 25 to a 100 years storm, which nobody does, zero, nobody, okay? That’s way outside of the standard of practice I couldn’t fit the pipes under the trees Physically impossible to do it Right now we’re limited by downstream, where the pipes discharge All of our pipes are underwater Our discharge pipes are underwater, so the storm sewers are permanently surcharged There’s water in the line 24/7 Because of that, when it rains, there’s no capacity for that water to go anywhere, because the sewer’s already full We have to build up pressure on the street in order to drive that water out, because the pipe is below the river – [Bill] So it goes into the river– – [Man] Right – [Bill] And the river goes up? – [Man] Part of it is a function Now, if we have storms like we got, like we received last year in August and September, that was a 500 plus, some were feet of 500, 750 year storm, and a thousand year storm That’s what we refer to as a high intensity, low duration storm A lot of water comes down at once It ponds in the street, and then it goes away within a matter of hours If that happens and we don’t cause Well, in this case we did cause There was property damage that resulted from it Those ones you just, you kinda have to take What we’re seeing now with he elevated river levels, and elevated bay levels, I don’t care how big you build it, it’s a function that your discharge is below ground, or below the water level, so if you want the water to get into the sewer faster, you build the sewer bigger, but in order to make a bigger sewer stay under the pavement, you bury it deeper, so it’s further underwater where it discharges to the river so you get more backup, okay, it’s a cycle – Yeah – Right – [Steve] So, you’re asking is there a plan? No, we don’t have a plan, because we already know the answer, and the answer is not what you’re gonna do The answer isn’t what you want – [Bill] Simple, what’s the answer? – [Steve] The answer is, some of this you have to take – [Bill] Okay – [Steve] You’re at the mercy of mother nature – [Bill] I guess ’cause we’re looking at this, so then this storm sewer’s just replacing current storm sewer that’s breaking down? – [Steve] Yes sir This represents storm sewer improvements that we know will make an impact, like what we did on Elizabeth Street a couple of years ago Couple, Farland, some of the upgrades in the P area – [Bill] What about Broadway near West Walnut Street, Main to Mason? – [Steve] Broadway is already taken care of with existing projects that are being funded – [Bill] So those projects will alleviate some of that flooding What about Shawano Avenue where it’s been flooding since I got a new apartment, by station three – By station three? – [Bill] Yeah – [Steve] Okay, that’s exactly what the chief was talking about If you come up and next to my office, we have a plat map from 1882 – [Bill] Sure, it’s an old slough – [Steve] Okay, well what they did was they, you want the answer, you filled in the slough We did building near it But all the area around it that drained to the slough,

you didn’t change that, so water continues to drain to the slough, it’s just you don’t have a slough anymore, so instead of it flowing into the slough, it flows into your basement? – [Bill] Can you install a slough? – [Steve] Where? That’s what I’m saying, in between the houses? – [Eric] I think it’s a good question, though, cause I think the plan involves looking at land views – [Steve] Right – [Eric] Ultimately I mean if you look down to what’s going on in Milwaukee, with MMSD, they’re taking properties, willingly, from residents, but they’re taking properties out of the flood plain – [Barb] Over here it’s– a new thing – And that was the discussion with some of my residents who wanted to sell to the city, and the city said we don’t want ’em, so they sort of, whatever, and Cheryl talked, well, maybe the city should buy the houses, raise the houses up, or tear the houses down and just make it park property So, I guess, and it’s not just on your shoulders, but I’m part of an organization in town that is, we’re very big into futuring, and where are other cities going with all this flooding and stuff? And this is stuff that we can’t just get people that, you know, this is a rainfall that happens once every thousand years, so, you’re not gonna see it again in your lifetime, and I’m gonna refer you back to 1999, when we got four inches of rain, and now we just had another one of those, and we’ve had several more close to it And so, I think the city needs to be looking at some of these things, and at least have an answer to say, well this is what we think would be feasible, and this is what it would cost, does everyone wanna get on board with that, or do you wanna just live with what the status quo is? – [Steve] Okay well, we don’t go around saying it’s a one in We’ve been trying to do the education, so that people understand what these storms mean Thousand year storm doesn’t mean it happens one in a thousand years, it means it has a one in one thousand chance of happening on any given storm – Oh – Yes – [Steve] So a 10 year storm is a 10% probability storm It’s the terminology’s been used since Christ was a kid, and it’s changing now, okay? Vanessa and I were at a symposium that was put on buy Carson Gallagher’s office about three weeks ago, and that’s what National Weather Service, they’re struggling with the same thing, trying to explain this to people, so they have changed their termin, and they’re asking for everybody to get on board, but it’s gonna be hard to break that cycle, because it’s been called a 10 year storm forever – [Barb] What’s the right term what’s the right term? – [Steve] It’s a 10% probability Any given storm has a one in 10 chance of happening – [Barb] Oh, so one in 100 chance, one in 1,000 chance – [Steve] Absolutely, so the one percent chance storm is the 100 year storm and that’s a big one, okay? – Okay And we’ve had some of those (all talking over each other) – [Bill] Paul goes” “My basement got flooded, “’cause your storm sewer had backed up,” and our reply’s been “What”? 10 year storm, 100 year storm? – [Steve] Our design standard is to design 10% probability – [Bill] All right, but can we still? – [Eric] And your point is well taken, Alder, and this is why I went out to Washington DC to talk to a senate subcommittee about these issues, because it’s something that is faced by communities all across Wisconsin, all across the country We’re all grappling with it Earlier today, Chief of Staff Jeffries and I had a meeting with an organization that is really interested in supporting municipalities who are doing this work So the hope is to have somebody within city hall who is kinda leading this effort, and it’s not just the job of Steve, or the storm water utility to address it It’s an organizational obligation that we have to develop and overarching strategy to deal with this problem, ’cause it’s not about a bigger pipe – [Steve] No – [Eric] You know, I think that’s some of it, obviously, but there’s reinfrastructure that needs to be done, and land use that needs to be reevaluated, and there’s work that needs to be done with municipalities who are upstream, whose water’s comin’ down and flooding our homes – [Bill] And you’re right, again it’s that, but we have to have something we can take to the people and say, and shrug our shoulders, we have to say look, we have to quit, when we develop, we have to leave land available so that water can soak in and we can’t be filling up these sloughs or these creek beds and these other things There’s a lot that can be done, other than just like you said, putting in bigger pipes that aren’t gonna work anyway So, okay, that answers that question, thank you – [Barb] All right, we have 362 pages left We’re on page five – [Man] One question as it relates to the summary, Director Grenier, and this was something that had been talked about, I guess prior to you joining the council, but the Main Street ramp I mean, I’ve heard it talked about, that it’s going to have to be replaced What’s the time table on that? – [Man] Best case scenario, we’d get the maximum amount of life out of it It has to come down by 2031

It can be requested That was part of the development agreement with Schreiber Foods Incorporated, when they built their home office at Global Technology Center, we signed an agreement I believe in 2011, and there was a 20 year sunset on it, so best case, that ramp stays up until 2031, at which time we have to tear it down, and turn that property over to Schreiber They could request that property at any time, before the expiration of the 20 years, and we have two years to put it on the ground and turn the property over – [Bill] And any ramp you build has got a shelf life – [Man] Correct – [Bill] What are they usually, about 50 years? – [Man] Between 50 and 75, depending on how well you take care of ’em, which is why I push about $650,000 in maintenance into the ramps each year – [Bill] And then they have to come down? – [Man] We’re hoping to squeeze 75 years out – [Bill] Okay, so this Cherry Street thing, where they wanted to but condos on top, to me, a neat idea, but when I heard that they have a shelf life, I was like (Bill sighs), it’s like building a new home and saying I’m gonna have to tear it down in 20 years I mean, that said– – But what I would like – [Bill] So when you’re doing these ramps, like the Main Street ramp, do we have an idea already, in 2031, where we’re going with a new one, if Schreiber wants to– – We started holding some discussions and we have not been successful in finding a candidate site yet – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] We’ll have to work on that – [Man] Part one of my question was it’s not a concern within the five year plan, then? – [Barb] That’s a good point Not a concern within this five year plan, unless– – [Man] Unless Shcreiber Foods calls up and says they want it – [Barb] And then it could be – [Man] Yes – [Bill] Do we stay in communication with them to kinda get a feel where they wanna go? I mean, if they said, I mean, I don’t know in the agreement or anything, like if they have to give us a– – [Eric] It’s two years, right? – Two year – Two year? – [Man] I think we get two years– – Is there any way, any reason why we couldn’t reach out to ’em and just say hey, we’re doing a five year plan? Any chance you can give us a five year shout out on this thing, so if we have to we can start including and at least start acquiring the land and what we need to do? – [Man] Happy to check in with them on it – [Bill] All right, thanks – [Barb] Now these are pages that seem to back up what we just talked about – [Diana] I would recommend you jump to page 87 – That’s great – That would be our next summary Everything between five and ’87 is just all the backup for the many major projects that we had just looked at that summary If you jump to page 87, you will see a summary of all of the equipment that has been requested The first item is actually clerks, and that is a few years out, and that is replacement of the election tabulators – [Barb] Nationwide it seems like that’s going on, I’ve been reading – [Diana] It’s just equipment that’s seven eight years old, that they’re wanting, that they use for a life of 10 years, so this is close to that, about 11 or 12 years out won’t be able to last that long And that is a request– – [Barb] Page 87 – [Diana] Then we would jump into DPW has some, currently needs some pieces of equipment – [Barb] You need to go back, okay, to, you’re gonna have to go back to, one more (murmuring) – [Barb] No, I wasn’t mesin’ with you Go back into finance Just click finance, the packet Yeah, I was not messin’ with you – [Diana] You can either scroll down to that page or in the bottom if you hover over where the page number is, you can actually type 87 and you don’t have to actually scroll down – [Bill] What did we just vote to replace with the? – [Diana] That was express vote? – [Bill] Okay, that was a program? – [Diana] It was a program, it was ADA equipment – [Barb] ADA equipment, yeah – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] All right, so we’re into DPW with bush brush chippers and sidewalk tractors, and do you guys have any questions about any of those pieces of equipment? No? Steve, any words? – [Steve] Again, what I can tell you is I had our fleet manager pull together an inventory and and equipment replacement plan a little bit more expensive than what we have done in the past, but following the same guidelines that we have used, both with the equipment, and with the fleet, when we get the fleet, everything in here is actually beyond service life, with the exception of the garbage trucks The garbage trucks, we are trying to stay on an eight year rotation You will see those under fleet, simply because after eight years of front line service, 260 days a year, those trucks are used up, they are falling apart – [Barb] Okay, so then– – [Bill] I’ve got a quick Some of our snow removal – [Barb] We’re not out of the work there yet – [Bill] Well, as it refers to trucks and that, do we lease or do we hire outside companies to do some of our snow removal?

They used their own vehicles, then? – [Man] Correct – [Bill] Okay so, when we’re talkin’ about trucks, you have a limited fleet, and then you have a leased fleet for stuff like– – Yes – [Bill] Well we don’t use those trucks for anything but, like, snow removal – [Man] Correct – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] All right, fire is next and, just take a minute guys and look this over, and if you have questions on any of this equipment – [Man] Can you guys hand wash dishes? (Barb laughing) – [Eric] There’s actually some health issues – [Man] Is it the food they cooked or what? (all laughing) – [Man] ‘Cause of the repetitive use of everything, and the ongoing 24/7 use of it, the cookware, they need to be sanitized – [Barb] I don’t object to the dish washers– – No, I don’t either – [Man] I’m so going to a restaurant (all laughing) – [Barb] Yes I mean the backups, it seems reasonable, the computers There’s just a rotation – [Man] There’s no new missions on that list, that’s all replacement equipment – [Barb] Yeah, it is – [Man] You look at some of the bigger items and between these two years of replacing portable radios, there’ll be an end-of-life replacements there Same thing that the police are currently doing with a bunch of their stock, I believe You’ve got the MBTs which are our current mobile computers, cardiac monitors, so they’ll be in– – [Barb] Right – [Man] So, they have the cardiac monitors, that’s why– – [Barb] They are expensive aren’t they? – [Man] They are very expensive, but I think there’s a 15 year life on them and then they stop supporting it, then when the technology has changed drastically The cardiac monitor here in the last 15 years, so – [Diana] Do you ever think, I mean, I don’t know, maybe it’s not a big enough item to do this, but over a period of time, I mean, replace a few every year, or it’s just better to get ’em all at the same time – [Man] We just, we like, because our people are moving around a lot and they may not be– – [Barb] And then they are familiar with them Never mind – [Man] Radios are one standard so that– – [Barb] You’re right – [Man] So that when people are having a heart attack – [Barb] ‘Cause they don’t stay the same, they – [Man] We want ’em to be able to not have to like hunt and peck for things because they can be very different every year – [Bill] And your vehicles are all in bonding? – [Barb] We’re not in vehicles (all talking over one another) – [Diana] If you go in the information center, some of this is really things that we annually try to incorporate into the operating budget It’s not in, our capital all account for IT, but it’s your annual, ongoing equipment – [Barb] Makes sense – [Bill] Okay, and the reason why I ask is because there’s vehicles with the DPWs, and that’s why I – [Man] That’s more equipment – [Barb] Equipment like the front end floater There’s really, where’s there vehicles? You mean the sidewalk tractor? – [Diana] Is that licensed? Do you– – No – [Diana] License the tractor? (all talking over one another) – [Man] That Bobcat looking thing? – [Diana] It depends upon if it gets licensed, and it’s not one of the major drivers, it’ll throw down to our fleet age instead – [Barb] Parks and rec, it’s kind of again, self explanatory stuff, basically small Tractor’s a little pricey but there you go (Diana laughing) That’s what they cost Any questions on the park and rec and forestry? Is that a showmobile or a snowmobile? – [Diana] It is a showmobile? A showmobile for $168,000 Do you put on a show? – [Man] Yes we do It’s a big stage (all talking over one another) – [Bill] Have you ever seen the show? – [Barb] I have seen the show Yes, I have It’s a show with just a stage All right, police, handheld radios, which we talked about and mobile radio – [Man] And that’s just our basic needs There was no extra thing that we’re trying to implement That’s just replacing stuff that we already have that’s exceeded their life span – [Barb] Okay – [Bill] Andso this other stuff is for if you stay in the current station? Security cameras, things like that – [Man] Yes, the 12,000 for the security cameras is just basic replacement of the cameras that we have We have cameras that are well beyond their life span and he’s trying to replace close Everything is for the station that we have right now The only thing that’s part of the building would be the camera – [Barb] Where should we skip down to now? – [Diana] And then the next page you would skip down to page 167 That will get you to the fleet summary, and you can go over and enter the 167 and it’ll jump you to that page And that’s gonna be to start with, this is where Director Renier-Wigg would be speaking on her– – [Barb] The community development – [Cheryl] Yep, and those again are the inspection vehicles We put in three of the worst ones with the highest mileage – [Barb] Okay – [Cheryl] We’ve asked for a larger vehicle Our inspectors now have computers in the cars–

– [Barb] Got it – [Cheryl] And the small cars they have now they’re doing a lot of this stuff which is great, so we’re just looking for some rocker space up in the front Building inspectors carry props and ladders with them, those types of things– – Okay – [Cheryl] And then also just trying to get around the snow and the ice, we’re looking for a larger vehicle And we just estimated for the five years, based on the year of the vehicle– – [Barb] How much it might go up – [Man] One of the things that we’ve found, because we handle a lot of the fleet purchases for sedans and anything of that nature, with the government pricing contract that we utilize, the crossover vehicles, the Chevy Equinox type vehicle, as opposed to a four door sedan, we’re actually getting a better vehicle for a cheaper price by going to the crossovers – [Barb] Okay – [Bill] So you have 12 vehicles, Cheryl? – [Cheryl] Yes – [Bill] And then you expect to replace them every five years? – [Cheryl] Five year mile we’ve been putting off, so every year we look at it and if we can put it off, we do, but– – [Bill] What makes you decide five years versus 10 or seven? – [Cheryl] I think this was just, when we laid this out it was just– – [Diana] All of our vehicles are already out of useful life, so at one point if they need to get back into, back into a useful I would think 2026 they might not have They might not have to replace them They could wait a year or two, and get it closer to seven or eight years – [Bill] I guess that’s what I’m asking because the PD used to replace all their cars every year, then they went 50/50, then they went every three years, and it was every four years, and now they hit about 100,000 miles or a little bit over before they start replacing, which is about four years, roughly And the older they get, the less they get used and I’m just wondering– – [Woman] And the officer clearly use them more than they– – [Man] They kind of beat the hell out of ’em, yeah – [Cheryl] These are older than four or five years – [Bill] And I understand, and usually you get them from the PD or other – [Cheryl] Sometimes – [Bill] You get everybody’s leftovers – [Cheryl] At this point we’re takin’ em from out– – [Bill] But I guess, should we get new ones as we start looking at other five year plans? Is it gonna be necessary to replace them every five years? – [Cheryl] No, I don’t believe so – [Bill] Okay, all right – [Cheryl] I mean this was because we’re behind– – [Bill] Because they are in such poor shape, but okay Thank you – [Barb] Now comes the trucks, Alder Galvin – [Bill] Oh boy, can’t handle this – [Barb] Of used trucks, spruce trucks, any questions on the trucks? They’re expensive – [Bill] How many trucks are we talkin’ about, I mean 309,000 how many trucks? – [Man] Every entry, every line entry you see is an individual vehicle, so it’s a big garbage trucks, $309,000 right there– – Wow – [Barb] Isn’t that something? All of these entries are one vehicle – [Man] Each vehicle, yes – [Bill] Okay, and because it goes up, that’s what you’re guesstimating the increase costs every year? – [Man] Cost increase due to, primarily due to steel prices – [Bill] It could actually be more, it could be less So it’s gonna be close? – [Man] Yes, – All right, thank you – Wow, okay – [Diana] So they have a useful life of eight years, and you got 16 years roughly? – Well eight years is a front line vehicle that we rotate it into the back if we can As fire was indicating, we also have a need for some reserve vehicles If frontline truck goes down, something we could press into service We have been, if the chassis is salvageable, we have been cutting the boxes off of them, and putting the old compactors, the rear ones on, and then we refer to that, if you hear my staff talk about a pan, it has a pan that comes down in the back, and then in combination with sidewalk unit or a tractor, we use those for brush and leaf collection So we’re also taking, a lot of times refuse trucks, by the end of the eight years, mechanically they’re pretty shot Engines are gone, transmissions are gone and we’re rotting through the frames, so I was talking to the fleet manager today With some of the tandem axle dump trucks, we’ve been successful Tandem axles work better if we got a single axel What we do is we’ll take the dump bodies off of ’em If we’ve got the single axel, we’ll rip the axel assemblies off the binding second-hand tandem axels, from government surplus, stretching the frames by about four feet, and then mounting the pan bodies on it so Nathan’s got pretty good By the time we’re retiring a vehicle, some of that heavy equipment from service we’ve used everything but but the move – [Barb] Pretty cool – [Barb] And I heard, wap, wap, wap, wap, wap, wap, (Diane chuckling) tandem something That was good It was very interesting – [Man] Well we don’t just get to the end of the service life and then ask for a new one We’re actually repurposing and turning it into another truck that we’ll continue to use – [Barb] With a pan or something All right Parks, rec, and forestry, so fleet – [Diana] Ah we jumped over fire – [Barb] I’m sorry, oh how could I do that? I am so sorry fire – [Man] Wow

– [Barb] Wow, that hazardous materials squad, wow I assume that’s one hazardous materials squad – [Man] That’s the second half of the, what you authorized in 2019 – Oh yes, that’s right – Oh wow, that’s right – That’s right, remember? – [Woman] That’s right, that’s a big one Fire engines, they are expensive Are command vehicles as big as fire engines? They’re like almost as expensive – [Diana] Command is 95,000 – [Barb] Okay, where am I seeing this 710 – [Man] For command vehicle four 11? – [Barb] Yeah – [Man] Okay, that’s essentially a, it’s a mobile– – [Barb] Oh, like a mobile, like, incident command center? – Command center – Wasn’t that a brand new– – I get it, okay – [Bill] 10 years ago? – [Man] That was in, yeah, 10 years ago – [Bill] So it’s time to dump it? – [Man] We don’t know yet, we’re still evaluating that That’s kinda there as a placeholder as well – [Bill] Okay – [Barb] Okay – [Bill] I understand with the engines in that one, what the determination is With some of these staff vehicles, command vehicles, what’s the determination, age, or wear and tear, and you bill me to fix it? – [Man] Yeah, I think the staff vehicles right now, I think we again, said five years, and we’ll evaluate that as we get a little closer to that when you look at that replacement in 2024 They might go seven or eight years That’s basically talkin’ about manned staff vehicles They may last longer The command vehicles that you see in their battalion chief vehicles, those are on the road all day, and they rip the road hard, so I think we’re callin’ a four year replacement on those, I believe Fire engines, we’re anywhere from eight to 12 years, depending on where they’re located Ladder trucks, we’re lookin’ at 18 years, roughly And we– – [Barb] There’s that million dollar, four million – [Man] Right, four million, that’s the first of two Actually, the first of three – A ladder vehicle – [Man] Anyway, and we’re building in a five percent cushion right now on everything We just added an ambulance building earlier this afternoon It’s a four percent increase over last year, and what I’m saying about the leasing is, is that we can get money cheaper than that right now, than four percent costs, you know, every year, every year, and recoup more money out of the ones that we’re replacing, so I’m gonna There’s two different national companies that do leasing programs – [Bill] They actually lease fire vehicles? – [Man] Yep, on a seven year We can tell ’em what year rotation we want ’em on, and they’ll come up with a plan, I can bring it in here I’ll actually have it, I’ll just come here to this committee, and walk you through it, and then I can show you basically what this shows right now, versus what it would cost us – [Bill] And they make money and you save money – Yeah, how does that happen? – [Bill] I find that– – [Barb] How does that happen? – [Bill] Yeah, I mean if they say it works, it works – [Man] Well, yeah if you save money on maintenance– – That’s amazing – [Man] And have the money on down time They get more money for them if we’re replacing them more often– – Okay – [Man] They’re worth much more– – [Barb] Oh and ’cause then they’ll sell them – [Man] By the time we get them, but right now, by the time we go for front line fire engine let’s say, so just say it’s eight years, and it goes to a reserve status or it could be four years depending on the condition of every vehicle every year that we evaluate So, at the end of 12 years, basically, we might get seven or $8,000 for something that we paid $650,000 for, for 12 years a piece – [Bill] Basically it’s just scrapped – [Man] Right, so if we replace them sooner, there’s a much bigger market for them, and we can actually get a return in here, and sell it– – [Bill] Obviously you’re lookin’ into that – [Man] We’re gonna look into it There’s two different companies We’ll probably have them come whenever the finance committee wants to see them I’ll handle them and start puttin’ the plans together – [Bill] It’d be interesting to see to compare these costs here – Yeah – Yeah! – [Man] And again, if they come back and it’s not, it doesn’t show that there would be a big savings for us I won’t waste your time– – [Barb] Right, right – [Man] Came back and it was higher I don’t expect it to be that way, but– – [Barb] Thanks for looking into that – [Bill] Yeah – [Man] Will definitely look at it – [Barb] When you look at parks and rec, I just wanna comment that the entire five years is less than ladder truck 421 (all laughing) There you go It’s pretty, I know Any questions then on these– – [Bill] No – [Barb] ‘Cause they aren’t gonna know what they are Here come the police squads I think you got some squads Didn’t we generously give you some squads? – [Kevin] Yep, 2019 we got 15 squads, and 15 for the next five years will get us back into that four year rotation We used to be on three and went to four, and after four years, those squads are pushing about 100,000 miles, and that’s important for everybody to know, because after the 100,000 miles, the power train warranty expires, just like I mean– – [Barb] Okay – [Kevin] Your personal vehicle, and we’re seeing a big influx of the amount of repairs we are doing on a current fleet, because we haven’t got squads in a year or two So some squads are goin’ on a five year rotation, so that 15 squads a year will get us back to that four year rotation, so that we’re not experiencing some of these high maintenance costs like we’re experiencing this year – [Barb] They don’t seem to be real pricey

– [Kevin] Ah, well, when you look at the squad cars, a squad car is not The equipment in the squad car is more expensive than the squad car – [Barb] Okay, so that doesn’t include the equipment – [Kevin] No – [Barb] Oh, all right, that’s just the– – [Kevin] It’s just the shell of the car – [Barb] Okay, well then they are pricey – [Bill] Kevin, just based on what I’m seeing the other departments doing, do you think maybe you should rework these numbers and add in like a five percent bump each year? – [Barb] ‘Cause you kept ’em all the same – [Bill] You kept ’em all the same You know, just to cover your bets, I mean, ’cause if we’re looking towards the five year plan, you know, five years is, over five years, I mean five percent over five years– – [Barb] That’s a good point – [Bill] It’s gonna add up to a point where we don’t wanna get caught short again We never wanna get caught short again – [Barb] Right – [Kevin] Yeah, and we can do that– – [Bill] Okay – [Kevin] And this also includes, the numbers also include the trade-in costs of our current fleet we rotated – [Bill] See, you’re holding again, so you’re pretty guaranteed – [Kevin] It’s we take that in consideration It’s about $5,000 for like a Dodge Charger, after we rotate it– – [Bill] Okay – [Kevin] And after it’s done, it’s got 100,000 miles on it – [Bill] So, when we get these vehicles, what kinda warranty do they usually have on ’em again? – [Kevin] Just the three year, 36,000, 100,000 on the power train – [Bill] Okay, so with Cheryl’s cars, your cars, the fire department cars, when something goes wrong with it, during that three years, we take it back to the dealer and have them fix it So if you guys were to be rotating these cars in, our mechanics would have more time to be doing other jobs that get pushed to the back of the list, because they have to keep the fleets going – [Kevin] Correct – [Bill] And where does Cheryl take her cars to be maintenanced? – To DPW, so– – To Dan! – [Bill] Again, it would save some time for your mechanics, if it’s, I mean, if they’re – [Kevin] Some, yeah some – [Bill] Okay – [Bill] All right, thank you – [Barb] Transit Buses, nothing next year, is looks like? – [Diana] Correct, and what this is, this is the local share for the vehicles In most cases it’s an 80/20 federal payment, and this is the 20% or the local share of the buses – [Bill] That’s 20% – [Diana] The buses run about 400 – [Steve] They’re startin’ to close in on them afterwards – [Barb] Yeah – [Bill] Are we gonna be looking at electric, alternative fuel buses, something that’s more green? – [Barb] Is that what we’re here for today? – [Bill] Well I’m just asking as we’re looking at that, well I mean, ’cause there might be monies opening up for that in the future – [Man] I know there’s some operability problems in severely cold weather – [Bill] Okay – So I know that’s why– – Which we get here – [Man] Patty’s had some surprise with that – [Bill] Okay – [Man] Ultimately, we’d love to have that – [Woman] Do they run on the natural gas? – [Pam] C and G, you have to build a whole ‘nother facility to have your C and G end, so that’s very pricey up front for your– – [Steve] We looked at converting both the metro bus fleet and a lot of art of it to C and G, and we actually had There was some money available through Wisconsin Public Service due to some lawsuits, where they were offering significant incentives They were hoping to fund the up front costs, and it still wound up not being cost competitive over the long haul, because of the retro fits and we were trying to put it in the existing buildings that are very old, and things of that nature – [Barb] Okay – [Steve] That kind of thing, we are, both departments are actively looking at other on a regular basis – [Diana] Alder Galvin, did you want some follow up? I can talk to Patty, and– – nope, I’m – [Diana] ‘Cause I told her she didn’t need to be at this meeting, ’cause she had This is the only section she had – [Bill] I mean, if we gotta build a whole facility for natural gas, and other types aren’t operating that well, the last thing we want is a bus full of people stuck out in the middle of some cold street ((chattering) – [Diana] So that would cover, that would be, a look at the expenses that have been submitted by department heads at this point – [Barb] And then the rest is just the supporting documents It really isn’t as overwhelming as it looked, – No – And so really, again, do we want to, are you looking for staff to come back with some procedures and policies, or is the council looking to put those recommendations together on how we should move forward with this document? Do you want to have a bigger say in prioritizing the items? The problem is, again, what happens is, by the time we get funding sources of what we think we can put into the 2020 budget, we’re cramped, and we’re down to just a few weeks, don’t know if we have time for another meeting, however, do you want to try to tackle that during the budget meeting? You’re gonna extend your budget meeting, probably by, much more time, and that’s why I brought this CIT to you earlier to just start it, having these conversations, starting to take a look at them, and that if we wanted prioritization and during the budget meeting, that would be something you might want ahead of time – [Bill] Well, we’ve got this We looked at bonding, although we really didn’t look hard at five year bonding, we just kind of made some decisions on a one year bonding I’m still going back to what Brian said Before I go into the budget meeting, I would like to understand, although you haven’t nailed down

all the funding sources – [Diana] Correct – [Bill] I would like to understand going into our budget meeting, what the funding sources are, what we’ve done in the past, and what we anticipate for the future, so that when we go into the bonding, again, if we have to make some hard decisions, we’re making decently, well thought out cuts, and not these nit-picking cuts that we’ve done in the past It has to be something that’s gonna impact the budget, and not so we can feel good, ’cause we got rid of the extra plush toilet paper, okay, and we went with the cheap stuff – [Diana] Correct, so yes at this point it was expenses only Funding sources had not been brought to the table There’s only nano steps that would totally– – [Bill] That’s what I’d like to see, if we have to have another special meeting before that, so just so we understand funding sources, past and future, and because the future is, without understanding the future, where our budgeting has come from and where it’s going, it makes even doing a five year plan hard to make, ’cause otherwise, we’ll make a plan then every year we’re gonna have to cut, or add to it And we still may have to, but I’d like to add to these as minimal as possible – [Eric] Yeah, and just so you all know, I am planning to individualize meetings with all nine members of council, with Diana, starting mid-September, so that it, it is a little bit lengthened, and you do have an opportunity to inform how a budget document is put together – [Diana] So again, there is no action report on this, just really looking for next steps Do certainly want to get back together, we can have more and additional information We could, at this point, we could probably tackle it and put it on the next finance committee meetings, which is going to, is September 10th, and then we could at least address it at that point, and then see, so that would be probably my recommendation, that I could bring back some of this funding source information to you at our September 10th meeting – [Bill] And September 10th one of the items will be funding sources – [Diana] Yeah, for capital equipment – [Barb] And what we, then we can kind of see, it’s hard to prioritize without even knowing how much we have – [Bill] Right, I mean, if we go into budget staying the same, we’ve got to make a million dollars in cuts At least I now have a better understanding of what we’re looking at bonding, and what we’re looking at for capital improvements, and then unfortunately, we have to make some tough decisions – [Barb] And I think getting the input from the department heads, as far as priorities could mean – [Bill] I guess I would ask the department heads to start thinking, looking at your five year budget, seeing that you massaged something from one year to the next The other thing is, the only problem is if you put things to the last year, you know what’s gonna happen that hast year, but if you could kinda prioritize what you don’t like, one through five, what you really want or one through five, what you could live with not having within the next five years – [Diana] And again remember this is a working document so the one that you saw a month ago was 2019 through 2023 It has now been updated Now you’re seeing the 2020, the 24, so we added a year, no different by the time we get into 2021, but you’re gonna start getting, you’re gonna see that additional year added on – [Bill] Right, because fire could add some information on leasing, which might help The PT is gonna have to have some information on increasing the cost of their fleet, but also, if they don’t get a new building, what’s it gonna cost to maintain the current building So again those information, we have to have and we have to be able to understand it – [Barb] Veronica, Kathy, you got anything new? – [Bill] Oh wait a minute – [Barb] The new evidence storage facility I didn’t see any of that in here – [Man] What evidence storage facility? – [Bill] Well, we’re have, or will be destroying a lot on Quincy street, and we’ve got the one on Broadway street that’s supposed to be temporary, and temporary means to me, at some point we’re planning on building a new one which I heard might be on the far east side – [Man] I’ve heard that too, but I would have to defer that to Director Grenier – [Bill] Well, and again, that’s something I think we– – [Steve] But we were looking at potentially having to pull the trigger faster than what we could have gotten into Badger That’s where the far east discussion came from – [Bill] Well I think that would be cool of you to have that somewhere within your plan, even if it’s part of a 10 year plan – [Steve] Sure, sure I think the expectation was potentially as part of the new lease building, evidence storage was gonna be– – [Barb] That’s what I thought – [Man] Our sole direction was the new public safety building, but we will put plan B together to include that – [Bill] Well, with the amount of vehicles, and the amount of, well, we have an entire living room set that’s partially burnt We at one time, had over thirty or forty vehicles, long-term, and I’m– – [Barb] As evidence? – [Bill] Yes and I’m trying to envision in my head a facility big enough to house

all of that, and house it properly, so that it’s all part of one building, as opposed to an off-site facility that may be better and, as we’re thinking futuring, maybe we build one big enough to start contracting with other departments to store their large evidence stuff and you know, as we’re going and looking at Gert, going brown county wide, our evidence is all run through Gert, so we run that as a potential something to offset some of our costs – [Man] And we’ve really reduced the amount of stuff we have to store With the amount of stuff we’ve been able to discard working with the district attorney’s office We don’t have to store that couch that you mentioned I believe we still have that But it’s– – [Steve] And the facility, we went from 6,000 square feet of storage space to over 12,000 – [Bill] Right – [Man] And we got rid of a lot of vehicles too, so we don’t have that problem anymore, we just have to maintain – [Bill] Okay, so that was more of a logistical issue than it was– – [Man] Yes, that was people not prioritizing the facility of keeping, we just thought it was easier to keep it than work to get rid of it – [Barb] Oh, okay – [Man] We’ve been very proactive with that Our evidence tech Nita’s been phenomenal with that – [Blil] Oh then that’s not as big an issue – [Man] Right – [Bill] Okay I’m sorry – [Barb] You guys have any other questions? No? Is that about it then? – [Diana] Ah probably I would give, maybe direct the staff to bring back additional information Maybe that would be our ammunition? – [Bill] My ask would be that staff have a priority list of things they either really wanna keep, or that they can put off, if push comes to shove, so we have something, a document in front of us that when Eric finally gets the budget to us, and we look at it and go, oh boy, we gotta make some cuts here, if we know in advance, I think it will be easier to get through that process – [Barb] And then the funding sources – [Bill] And then the funding sources, yes – [Woman] So we have to– – [Barb] Well no, we’re gonna do it on September 10th We’re gonna do it at our next finance meeting Okay, yeah – [Man] So you need that by September 10th? – [Diana] I don’t know if you need his pieces yet, quite by September – [Bill] No, no, no But I would like to have your add on to the fleet and the costs of maintaining the current building for the next five years – [Man] We can do that – [Bill] And then the fire could have an adjustment – [Barb] Thank you everyone for your time – [Diane] Thank you. Okay so that was more of a logi

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