it will look when it’s printed I actually have to explicitly paginate it the hardware simply wasn’t able to keep up with interactive pagination sorry but if not back and think about what I’ve said okay so I’ve created a multimedia document properly typeset and laid out in a WYSIWYG fashion if I would print that this is exactly the way it will show up and I did it with fewer than a dozen commands is like claims i would do if i wanted to print this thing I mean to UM say well print it or to mail it what i would do is drag it to one of these icons so in fact here is where i guess i forgot to point out when i was talking about icons we divided the icons into two classes data icons and function icons the function icons operated on the data icons the data icons were documents folders record files spreadsheets the function icons were mailboxes printers file cabinets so forth the way you got a function to operate was by using the move key you selected a data icon said move and then clicked on a function icon so I’ve just invoked the male command by using the more generic in general move command so all I have to do here is piper am address stay then and it will go off and mail this thing for me so I want to sum up here there’s a couple of lessons that I think bear thinking about 17 years after star came out 1,000 times later and machine speed memory density and distant city stars interface still is simpler and more consistent and more usable than the systems we see today in fact the most pleasant experience for me and this whole thing actually Dave Kerberos had to do all the hard work of making this hardware 10 I’ve had to do is get familiar with star again and the most pleasant part of all that is finding out all over again how well star has has survived how how well the ideas have held up in the intervening 17 years it doesn’t seem like an antiquated system in fact if there were any way I could use this thing I would but there’s nowhere I can print it I’m not thinking further I know what nobody who can read this email the female by the way that I just sent you know I had to add equations in and add all sorts of non-ascii stuff in it it doesn’t matter it just all went the way so star had many fewer commands in today’s system and it didn’t do it by having fewer functions it just had fewer commands and the way we got accomplished that I hope I should illustrate ‘add was through the use of generic function keys through objects that had property sheets through virtual keyboards and through smart objects that would do a lot of the hard work for you we also have a taxonomy of icons data and function icons that led to simple ways of doing things namely you move to a function icon and that handled a whole bunch of commands there and lastly this notion of a copy paradigm meant that I could do quite fancy graphics if somebody had created a little graphics transfer sheet for me to use all I have to do is then copy those things into my document okay that was pretty much the demo now they’ve turbo is going to talk about some of the technologies other than the this interface obviously the interface has been picked up by by all personal computer manufacturers and most work

station manufacturers but there are a lot of other technologies and stars that have also been picked up by other companies and days going to cover some of those so the version of star you saw is a version that they were working on when i arrived in 83 and if robert was blown away when he came here at the hardware design I was really blown away because I came from a heart am main claim of operating system background just before this and I’m very proud to have been able to work on this project for so many years my job in this whole thing is kind of then I had I had some hardware my garage that I got from Alan fryer and more people and in the course of my work I managed to figure out how to make it work again and so we were able to do a demo for the Chi conference human error face in fact I became a human face designer at the end of my Jacques stay because i was so impressed with the user interface and i went to do a better job for everybody else so i went to apple and and worked there as a humorous designer um well long story but so we went to the chi comprehension everybody was really impressed and john shock suggested that we do this again and so since everybody’s covered all the interesting things I thought to you about the well not the interesting but some of the things that people don’t really notice crevice flied to please thank you great I hope so all of those all those wonderful things Dave showed with equations and all that that was it was at work because we had you know not just a ski and also we supported ogio see in a very first place we had Russian French Swedish lots of other things and then like six months later we supported Japanese so in the end of 82 i believe is when jay Park came out and it may be tough to see but this is actually Japanese typed on a screen and print it and in the course of the next few years dress character code standard which which became Unicode really Unicode came from this support it every major language some little-known facts some of the other innovations you may not be aware of directory services we call them clearing houses they derive from originally grapevine here at park on amia on the Altos now 18 years later they’re all the rage with with ldap and Microsoft direct active directory of course Novell did support directories for a number of years and they were I’m told extremely similar to clearing house career remote procedure calls you know originated here of course it originally it with with the Altos first and we productized them and ship them print protocols didn’t printing protocols that you guys be really added to printing you may care about drive from here cusp cusp was customer programming it basically it was in user programming it was intended to allow users to program well it actually turned out that more like consultants program but anyway it was an English language programming tool that was there was actually popular with some of our major customers I’m told that Lufthansa Airlines did everything from menu planning everything else using cusp that’s kind of metamorphosed into metaphor capsules slightly different and Apple script a project I worked on at Apple for a while the intent was and again to allow users well really consultants to be able to automate stuff on them system boot servers wellbut servers if you use an alto you knew you you download it things like maize war and and other games and applications and in our product days we shipped something called boot service so you could boot installer and utilities and things like that from the network that’s metamorphosed into application servers that now download things like our Java applets weblogic and kiva / netscape do this now very popular only have so many

years later remote access the ability to from someplace remote like your home or someplace out in the field dialing through a modem and be connected transparently to the network at the other end cause our fire no end of grief trying to make it all work but it really looked like you’re on a very slow Ethernet connection and of course this extremely popular now in a nomadic world do we live where everybody carries a notebook computer they want to plug in but they have to dial in to work to get stuff so that’s just a few of the things that we did I want to say thank you for all who helped make this happen like Kathy Ching and Stella timmons and not of X off to who provided me with some floppies that they managed to find as was some hardware Alan fire who helped make all this hardware work in the first place and of course Tony staffer who has a garage I’m told full of metaphor machines these in fact are 10 megabit sorry 10 megabyte very first 80 tens so they’re very old we’re very happy that they’re still working we he also managed to find in his garage a box of software that he when he left metaphor metaphor gathered the stars part of it was this stuff went to his house for some reason and it has he had a box of software welcome sorry excuse me Dave um sorry right there’s um in this box we found software from 1983 1984 which we actually we got you last night loaded floppies from 1984 in somebody’s it’s still loaded and still worked we did have a bit of a problem with product factoring trying to find keys to unlock it but a separate paper was found with a password that worked and so we were able to last night product factor things and make it all work so we’re very very thankful to Tony for stashing this stuff I’m and of course to the hundreds of people here who worked on star of which I was just one of those people thank you for coming and now we’ll do cute there is two more things I should tell you let’s see if you didn’t sign the poster outside there diggy people who worked on the start please do so there is opposed to somewhere and the Rockstar retrospective which jeff johnson and people worked on jeff has kind of provided a few copies if you’re interested in that and now we’ll do QA so sure you like tell me about the Q&A session I’ve been insane about history programs that question dancers go on too long and like when I first saw its valuable information for historical record we take these programs for that so I’m not inclined to stop the question answer at any point and anyone who wants leave at a time is perfectly free to you don’t have to now ordering the question answers Peter Ricky and I’d like to suggest that that even though many of the good ideas and starting to be published public well that there are also important aspects of it that don’t really translate their value to subsequent generations except in the form of a code so I’d like to ask the following two questions number one can anyone make a substantial case y0 should not put the entire source code is starting to the public domain and number two or does the rocks to do such a thing what it being wouldn’t be possible to find it you should repeat the cordon with mark whiten point the Peters question is is there any substantial argument as to why the star source code ought not now to be put in the public domain and secondly if there were an agreement that that were an acceptable thing to do could anyone lay hands on the original Star source code or a facsimile thereof in order to do that I can’t possibly answer either of those questions except to say I can I cannot myself automatically see a reason why it couldn’t be as some other classical source code is in the public domain but that would be an issue for Xerox to sort out the the other question though about the availability of it who knows I imagine him I think you’re his name’s

fair I’m willing to fact up until two three months ago jacque’s was still supporting the products there had been a new virtual machine implementation built that round top of Windows it runs very fast actually and they tell me that they have gigabytes of stuff but they’re not quite sure what versions and stuff because it’s just a small crew that was finishing the maintenance they stopped supporting it just recently I suggest you talk to someone at Xerox Mark Weiser is nearby she said it was an original there is no sanitation it is a Xerox product never sold until about two months ago I’m on it red hot he sees windows we have a question over wherever here programa program oh well that’s out but there’s a wonderful answer to this actually although it’s not your 2000 compliance it does have some fairly nice features about dealing with dates the things like that what is it it hasn’t blown up yet though is it your 2000 when it hits the wohlers there’s something earlier I think the time step actually blows up around 20 20 or something like that yeah I think that there is a problem with the configuration software which if Alan can rewrite it it doesn’t let you configure a new star I tried entering 00 and it said no way but that’s just that’s your coat okay but that was that’s just the code to to set the time on the machine had a few idiosyncrasies where I really couldn’t keep time forever no but we tried so it is here 2000 applying it’s off here’s 20 20 25 Ron cream the x and s time protocol is a 32-bit number which is the number of seconds 6 been wary 1920 one and that 32 bit counter rolls over a rest yes I have twisted up regarding cheap [ __ ] who the person with the silent spirit is still using it it is a wonderful program that I see sign it with love valium and do you know anything about it go pop singer / in ship which trip with no programming we can all sit on the floor ICU time we’re a step backward oh sorry yeah we just use sill you didn’t learn allowed to design a seat hey wait honest is the design methodology that we use factory design this based on tabs back sometimes a bunch much yeah yeah that’s an interesting point I’m the first day with money one drink question death Charles asked about some comments about the work that was done on the design methodology Dave Smith referred earlier to the fact that it was done in a principled way in fact I commissioned a you might say a task force which Charles R be chaired as it were to develop a methodology first so before we did the design we decided on a methodology for user interface design so that we’d be able properly to manage both the process and the abstractions that we were going to be working on and then as the user interface design was done in stages and to attack different tasks there was a very sort of consistent approach the information display was designed independently from the function invocation for example which turned out to matter a great deal and both of those were designed independently from the users conceptual model and this was the first time that anything like this had been done either the development of a methodology per se or then a principled user interface design that’s one of the reasons why star from a usability point of view is such a great improvement over most of

its successors is because we actually did it by designing it using a set of principles rather than just sort of randomly copying what someone else had done or kind of debugging it into existence so that’s her not to be very important Charles himself and and Dave Smith Eric Harlem and ralph kimball along with linda bergstrom ssin and a number of people from Park who were still in Park proper but were happily helped us by joining our task force and I include Larry Tesler Charles Timoney at least bill Verplanck a number of other people as well so it was a big and very focused effort some people thought yes the long period of time just to decide what you’re going to decide or to design how you’re going to do the design but I feel that it really served the process and the subsequent in industry very well yes it seems pretty clear that one of the major shortcomings of stars doesn’t lose your sight turn-key somehow seeing in the crystal ball that independent software there was some speculation of part-time essential software I be curious about what do you think also whether that was something that at the time it’s just impossible to prevent reaching itself or whether looking back on it you feel like you know I wish we’d gone the other way I’ll say what I thought the question was in retrospect doesn’t it seem as if you could have thought that you should provide more of a programmable open system even though there wasn’t an independent software industry at the time and we actually did make the ex de the xerox development environment in such a way that it could be packaged up and shipped and we did begin shipping it to customers about if I remember about 18 months after we launched the product it was however designed for fairly serious hardcore programming use and we did not understand a lot about what it meant to export and support that kind of an environment but I it actually always was a part of the plan to do that we just did not put it in front of the other objectives later on of course some of the objectives for the program changed but I generally feel that if it had happened earlier we might have been more a part of jump-starting a better earlier soft independent software industry the first few years of the pc software industry were pretty rocky and largely because of the tools and so on that were available so i think see it as an opportunity partially myth actually there was a contra stuff here in a 3d called phoenix what was which was taken send me the top of toolkit Dave different that I think he mentioned today the English last time they want to transpose we didn’t have a toolkit and started that the draw on the screen art everybody gone on on the screen well in Tahoe there was a toolkit for doing that and in the Phoenix project a toolkit was built and originally and it became viewpoint viewpoint was an open toolkit based architecture that intended for third-party to develop software for you had to develop in Mesa and required a little more learning than most people had and but it about a 485 we started shipping viewpoint to allow people to do just what you suggested in terms of volume oh can we have the volume of the wire I I would like to make one more comment about previous question Charles service question about the design methodology Dave results correct that we before we did the design we did the design for the design and it’s interesting that the principles that we came up with are no big surprises to people today anyone in the humans back to his business anyone who goes to a sig chi conference or reads the journals it’s all pretty standard stuff it’s it was doing user testing it’s analyzing the tasks that users do doing in their context trying to figure out what objects are using and what actions are performing on the objects and in fact we went out many times in the early days to various sites and decomposed in

excruciating detail the task that people were performing went back and did a design that would would enable you to accomplish those very same functions but hopefully in a much simpler and more improved way I think it’s very revealing from a historical standpoint that the sig high organization formed after star came out if the first cig hi conference was in 1982 I work at part and just last week I had a visit from a legion fuji xerox the jump and branch of xerox he told me that the global you add a star and product in Japan is still active and it been thus and that so new corporation this year had selected it for it for assistant ii that they have and then for good measure we opened up what will you existed here sand and the network icons and i drop a document of this guy’s printer at fuji xerox in japan and it worked so j star in fuji xerox in’ and so on i I very well remember when Bill English in ni and Joe Becker and others were there for the launch of the fuji xerox jstar bill and Joe of course had been there in Japan several years getting that program working and I was not very used to the way that literal translations from Japanese turn into English phraseology and so after the after the launch that is on the day of the launch the booth was absolutely packed with people of all kinds particularly competitors people from other companies and so I’m looking at the product and I remember one of the fuji xerox marketing folks translating for me the review that was written the next day in the paper and he said it was clear in real time he was thinking how to phrase this back to me and he said the foo jack the fuji xerox star is as different from conventional computer interaction as clouds from mud and I thought well you can’t do any better than that the International beaches a star and how they were big element and in the sales that we did have we should recognize the years of hard and very creative and dedicated work of the man who did who is largely responsible for the internationalisation out star and that is Joe Becker without whom a lot of these tough issues especially like making a selection in Arabic which starts like this and then if there’s an English word it will go the other way and then when you go back to Arabic the flexural of them and he made it I work all in any said and what if the writer is writing in Arabic and they’re quoting created algebra yes very curious 11 what kind of tools to create these are programs with under the only call traditional teletype to work across the center on maternity of new environments become the more real-time interactive shoe language language only things i’ve seen the car to stop the program before the changes wonder if any brother Tiffany informational environment kamagra faces are wondering how to actually work new programs how England photos they will stolen items there yay 21 opposite things such as your brother he

you could at at some way if you realized you’d screw it up you could back up and say no no do it like this back up down dumb via call stack force the caller differently you’re passing different variables and go in and state then I’ll skip over this and do that and this was in 8087 something like that you know it was just amazing tools available that according to my friends who are still writing code tell me they’re just now starting to see the stuff in some of the new microsoft products i’m probably the most nerdy person in this group and i can’t answer the questions anymore because I’ve done human interface leave you find like oh this man right here Charles Haines who was the debugger person who put in well and and and other things talk to him afterwards okay machine actually end up on desks of us I level fortune 50 the question is for how long were sales significant and did the machines wind up on the desk of fortune 500 professionals I can I can answer the second part I was only here through most of 1982 and then went off and tried to put it similar but different machines on the desk of Fortune 500 professionals it’s not to print documents but do other funny data like things it is certainly the case that the primary customers were the biggest customers you can imagine that is it did indeed go prime virtually always to professionals as a matter of fact it was hard to get the sales force to quit trying to sell it to word processing people word processing people were proud of their ability to withstand pain you know and to know all these complicated commands and they were not that the target and it definitely went in modest numbers I admit to that very target audience who can say what was the period over which star was sold on the various different platforms including the Sun I don’t know if any of us have the right answer for them yes way at the back I wanted to say thank you but I also wondered who invented the undo command the question is the question paula game oh man restatement of others who invented the undo command now as far as I know war entitlement invented the undo command and inter lisp or its BBN Lisp its prior name I believe that’s true and it was culturally very strong here in park and so was not optional not to have it in in the system I think it’s fair to say that the idea that the ability to make text editing documents undoable flows from j.strother mooers peace table invention which was the thing that made it possible to have a text document in which you could still undo it by not irrevocably committing the data structure that at least would be my assessment what else yeah as far as I’m dude those I’m we might as well come clean here Dave’s trying to get a picture of the keyboard if we could switch to the camera for a second oh right there is a key labeled on the keyboard undo he’s got it oh he’s at the camera no anyway it’s one of the function keys on there and we thought that those designers that was enough to ensure that it would actually be implemented unfortunately and i neva t we were wrong and it was never implemented and started i’ve actually have on junior however we did have one one thing that we did win when it comes to undo we used to have a contest can you find the sit-ins in the star functional spec that causes the most implementation work that was the sentence every command can be undone by pushing the undo key yeah then they talked about names for the product at one of the original West was supposed to be debris for the star haha at the pound of the term star named star the name star was made up by Bob spinrad who was at that time vice president of system development he was the head of STD at that time and he and I were once again trying to sell it to yet another skeptical senior executive and we had just been put into the clutches of Dave

culbertson who happened to be a sailing enthusiasts and so spinrad said let’s name it after a one you know a sailboat class okay a one design sailing class maybe that will cause him to be interested in it and star well you know it wasn’t very easy to get Dave interested in things and the star was both a decent interesting one design sailboat and also a tolerable name for an office appliance mean we looked at a number of other ones but you know somehow lightning didn’t quite do it and you know sunfish and everything else but star seemed okay that’s where I came from a break was the name like launch yeah I’m sorry close play is there any idea how many were actually ever produced something like 30,000 yes I think you’re in is gooey fish I’m a strong supporter of but recently you may have noticed there’s something about backlash against officer in Japanese Romanians mortal puzzling would be a better word for with the longest perspective perhaps of those books on audio range of duties and your faith and auditory me please been shaken at all not badly enough to call them buoys but we know that’s not curiosity if you look at the descent lines from the start there’s a wife what would be the first and maybe some of the second layer ones that you would consider to be obviously the standard for fix descended from the start at least an idea mimetic concepts if you will I think he particularly if the deletion might have been a closest well there are few that were licensees ok that is there was a product dunnett’s son called to I forget but it was on the purchase on the port to the Sun there was a toolkit done its Sun under license from hook oh sure I open look open look thank you right which was a direct descendant similarly the product that we did at metaphor we actually had a license for as well and it was a clear direct descendant Lisa had some similarities and some differences it was more similar than the Macintosh was obviously there was you should pardon the expression next step and and motif and what was it yeah that the perk had some similarities and some differences as well what else other guys can think about actually on this article by Jeff Johnson that they preferred to which are up here a very nice chart in it that has quite a dependency graph of star and everything so well you’re invited to come up here and take a look at that a lot of hay has been made over a certain visit by steve jobs that showed up here and look at everything whether that exists or not I maybe they store their maybe not but I’m more curious you agreed a lot especially maybe in the last ten years about how Xerox invented it and everybody else got rich off of it I’m just curious from what was the you know what can you say about the attitudes and feelings inside Xerox inside park watching these other machines you know our vision not so much garbage whoever making a lot of Mike it was a big crowd child of our ideas was a deep goddamn we just thought was great we just simply wanted our I used to go out there in the world and we weren’t at all concerned with commercial success down here I’ve started off before the start a fire fan been marked for about 20 years I just want to say this in public two of the inventions in park okay make xerox over two billion dollars a year in gross revenue school just to them alright so we’re very proud of the money that we have made for this corporation and they are the doc attack and the doctor friend kremers the other

I thought you were going to tell one of my favorite stories and I just have to substitute a couple of words remind me the star i think was unveiled at the 1981 ncc for the rest of the world and the booth was packed and the japanese press was there and they went back and wrote all about it and when it was translated to me in just the same way the translator looked at it and said this sentence that the xerox star disemboweled the competition yeah I decided to leave that part out but that’s that’s true search team i remember a long time ago that when the department of defense was designing ada they came to Xerox ask for their canoes and they sell no the last question was that he had heard that long ago when the DoD had that high order language thing on the street what eventually became a de and that they came to Xerox and asked if they could quote have Mesa and that directs said no I don’t think that’s quite correct I do remember someone asking permission for us to give a briefing to the ADA committee about a number of the features that were in mesa because we hadn’t at that time yet really written widely about at least some of the features that were in that were in mesa and we did give we did sign off on that briefing happening I think what you may have heard is that we were asked if we would like to take essentially an ARP a contract to as it were hardened Mesa to be that ADA and we said no because we didn’t want to do contracting we were actually trying to construct these commercial products but that’s my recollection about a Peter do you remember anything about that I just said does ring a faint fail that um that there was that was interesting in mesa as part of the ADA effort I don’t remember whether and I’m pretty sure there was there was some Xerox political reason why Mason was not submitted as one of the candidates in the in the ADA competition the person probably would know that most about that is butter lamp maybe saturday i remember coming to me and asking how much can leave sweet kill everything about that no matter what you say what if that so here Jan got a new cluster confused at park you pattern modular to Africa yeah the question is didn’t did Niklas spirits a visit to park and his exposure to Mesa have impact to how he designed modulo 2 I think he certainly has said that I think he’s quoted add as one of the sources of of his some ideas yeah the exact city officials are clearly made tax base and the race is obsolete mainlines obsolete and it has a really good header in 17 years someday it’s obviously the lco too and as when you have any idea of the class or the research that we’ve done in Xerox of stuff is way beyond improvements that educates which is part user interaction a question was given that the that the xerox star and the interface approach that it’s sort of exemplifies her embodies still seems to be a leading form and the strong successor to the old text based interfaces he was really asking about opinions about things which will compare to the z rock star as clouds to mud that is but what what is it the will what is it that will obsolete obsolete the graphic these are interface thank you answer pretty clearance so when those tiny hey oh well seriously so as they was one of the designers of the star interface i am a little disappointed that in the last decade we haven’t really pushed much beyond this desktop metaphor with its documents and folders i mean even at apple i was unable to get them to

willingly go beyond this metaphor they were just too successful for too long and developed too much inertia you know i would like to see it pushed injections of information retrieval one of the neatest things about the internet are although the search engines that are out there this is just great and no reason you can’t do that on your local machine as well and there’s a lot of areas that we could make progress in and it hasn’t been sufficient anyway innovation the last decade that’s that’s pretty clear yeah i’ll second this is a hardware designer you know having the having our memory to go from a half to five hundred and seeing the user interface barely change has been an incredible disappointment i remembered on the star software if you wanted to run the spelling checker that was a big deal you waited a while in fact we had spelling checker servers you know now and so this is the biggest chain it’s happened in 10 years is now powerpoint a spell in checking while you’re you know entering the characters and I hi predicted that what happens so today I remember so that’s the only change I’ve seen now in 17 years a spelling correction is as you type hey don’t do that don’t do that yeah okay word still has pagination it’s called fast safe not not to do game person if you look at the number of children are growing up with amazing skill and finally is very very fast video games and you think about some of the navigational technology there and some of the methodology for moving around in a space and doing things in that space especially if it’s interacting with you in kind of an entertaining way it seems to me that there’s the term of the new UI paradigm in there some of what it is yet it certainly not video games or say letting it can fill done something the same well certainly today we can we can build on micro processors with things like a 3d acceleration for free essentially so I am I really i know that there was the insight group here which i visited a little while ago i would really like to see you know something utilize the transistors better on the chip for the user interface and if it’s 3d we can do it for free essentially so we’re at that point on technology that that’s possible I think I think Charles actually identify if anybody’s interested in pursuing it I’m not in that business myself but a direction to go and trying to push the interface forward look at the games look at video games so I want to see a prototype because we’re doing silicon that we need I’m just shocked there’s no university research or no you know research at all in this area and I really would like to see a prototype and i’ll give you the hardware if you give me the software prototype yeah PR stuff it’s a good start go go ahead can you talk a little bit about the adventure the Mesa programming language and why you decided these Mesa is the language for pilot and co-pilot start sure question is I was Mason invented and why did we decide to use it the other language alternatives that we had at that time fell into two classes they were there either very much very superior for quickly building prototypes or even building large elaborate systems but had that the well-known performance difficult is that you would expect with these two very powerful systems we had here namely inter lessman small thing okay it was not practical obviously to do an implementation in those although Smith stubbornly continued to prototype in in them for as long as you possibly could the other set of alternatives that was available at that time weren’t sufficiently type-safe or had didn’t have the right set of abstractions and so on for building industrial-strength software of which you hope to sell hundreds of thousands of copies so that was primarily bcpl see even didn’t exist at that time that splendid language embodying the grade given to its designer it wasn’t even here in that in that moment so it was BCPL or other very weakly protected machine oriented languages so mesa was actually quite a nice design it had a few excesses in it that took us a little while to get out but it gave us tremendous reliability in constructing this elaborate piece of software and by god you made a change the things in it started running again the way it was supposed to and so on so this was a curious window in the history of programming languages and I the idea

of building a big software system that was nevertheless going to be replicated and sold very cheaply so you couldn’t ship a systems engineer with every copy was really quite new and and that was the reason for the Mesa choice Peter just add a little foot down to that there was there was a working group at park that that met the number of times was a very high-powered group looking at the requirements for a programming language for the work to be done at park itself and while I was not directly coupled to the to the evolution of Mesa and Asus phone follows on in fact in fact Mesa had already been developed to a fair point by that time there were there were ideas coming directly from Park as to what a modern system programming language needed that that I think influenced Mesa choice in Mesa very heavily for example the fact that that Mesa has a very rich types asia-pacific type system and is generally very type safe this was not a a popular point of view for you know hardcore assistant programming in the late 1970s in the early 1980s and I think that that it’s fair to say that the that the Mesa are the ideas in it originated pretty much at Park can and that and it was it was the out the app tool the hand when when the star was neat program yes over here oh no one responded a thing that Charles meant about 3d interface is being a direction to explore it’s a mutant to me that the arranged in video games right now our 3d multiplayer network games I recall many years ago maze war being a very early 3d or the thing I appreciate about mizzou was that otherwise I never would have gotten people to be willing to test all that complicated internet working code and no I’m perfectly serious it was a wretched testing problem but people playing maids mays who are absolutely tortured every every line of that code and i was tremendously grateful for that idea dick response to the question why Mesa think Kermit was kind enough to take a paper that I had written back in 85 and scanned in with the category back capture I put on his website which doesn’t really go all the way back in history and stuff up here was talking about but it has so it has bibliography that does and it’s a fairly clear description of Tahoe the state of time sir good night 1985 so I don’t we can make the URL that available well posed that I can give another URL go ahead if you just go I will have to put it on tonight but if you go to description why you gotta Debbie Debbie Debbie sweet shop cops bill this w/e t sh 0 PPD that happens to be my website that my wife Jenny wish you change your domain name I’ll put it out put a copy the paper there not a question just park trivia I believe in this true that he mains for all the world over to play all the time and of course there we were all accuracies we’re attacking the sources and a result of that the authors got accepted everyone making cheese and therefore they store the sources in encrypted form of short street I believe that of all the software innovation that’s happening in the park the paint boy sources for the only soft drinks no the question is did star ship with any hidden easter eggs that I know of let me assure you not any that I knew of but I wouldn’t bet that there weren’t what else ok thank you very much they want her to stop

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