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But, Kees, you didn’t start go-kart Let me tell you that Kees is the FIA vice-president The FIA is nothing bad, it’s the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile – It’s nothing bad! – No, nothing bad It could sound bad, but Kees is big, very tall – Okay – Be careful But the president is like this, right? I’ve heard you have a couple of Coca-Cola boxes so that he can stand on them when he talks to you Those are your words You never protected, or you didn’t manage Bernd when he was in go-karting, did you? No, but the fact that That’s why he was world champion Maybe, because he also didn’t use Bridgestone tyres But anyway, the fact that he was junior world champion was the reason why I thought we could work with him – That’s not a bad thing – But I was a Bridgestone world champion You won with… Okay But not with the Bridgestones from Kees – No – In karting, no He was too young Thank you Mercedes, of the AMG racing team And we were sponsoring Lewis Hamilton and Nico – And you were – In charge Who was the best? Nico was the best for me, because he was the most intelligent in tyre testing He developed the tyre with which we finally won, a month later, the world championship But obviously, Lewis was quicker Do you think today it’s still the same? Now, Nico has I don’t know, Nico was world champion, I think there are two or more ways to Rome and there are more ways to win a world championship The one that had the most points and developed the car in the best way can be the world champion, and Nico is But maybe on just one lap Lewis is quicker, it’s possible I remember, because I was there too, I was the 50% money-giver In fact, at AMG, we paid you a lot of money The funny thing is Kees used to come to me and say: “Domingos, I need 10 thousand.” “10 thousand? What for?” “I have a guy from Poland He’s really good and he has no money.” “We can’t sponsor a guy from Poland, who the hell is he?” “Robert Kubica.” “Never heard of him, but okay. 10 thousand.” So I gave him the 10 thousand And do you know what happened? Years later, when I was in charge of the race track at Estoril, we had the Formula 3.5 Nissan, whatever it was called And he won the bloody race He’s on the podium, and I hand him the trophy “Congratulations, very well done.” “Sir, may I say thank you very much for the 10 thousand you gave me 10 years ago?” “Yes, thank you very much.” He never forgot How many big names have you got in? Too many to mention, but the same thing happened with Kimi Kimi was a very unknown, reasonable karting driver because of his equipment And actually my staff, not myself, saw the potential They called me and said: “We need to give him a contract, as a Bridgestone karting driver.” And we know what happened What happened? What happened to him? – Are you a motorsport man? – No, I was just trying to get out – But he won the championship, right? – Yes That was one example, we had many more Who was the best that you had in go-karting? It’s different Are we talking just about go-karts? Go-karts, who went into It’s a different story The best go-kart drivers, in my opinion, weren’t the people who made it in car racing

For me, the best go-kart driver ever was François Goldstein, a Belgian He was the best ever And then you had people like Danilo Rossi, Mike Wilson, they were experts Do you know Mike Wilson’s story? With Ayrton Senna? – Have you ever heard this story? – No. Please tell me It’s a good story Ayrton was I remember in 91, when he won his third world championship, he came from Brazil, he landed in Speyer with his private plane and I picked him up to go to Boss Anywhere where there were free goods, he’d be available Ayrton was a very rich guy, but he didn’t spend any money So we went to Boss, to pick up a couple of Stuff like trousers and suits, this and that I’m driving, he’s sitting next to me, and then he goes: “Português.” As he used to say to me “Português, “I’d trade one of my three Formula 1 world championships for one go-karting championship.” “Come on, Ayrton, you must be kidding me A Formula 1 world championship…” “It’s my dream.” It went on, and in 92, he raced in Hockenheim There was a German guy, I guess from “Rally and Racing”, who came in and said: “Mr. Senna! Who’s your favourite driver, the one you consider the best in the world?” Everybody expected him to say Fangio, Clark, Jackie Stewart, maybe Emerson Fittipaldi, one of these big names And he goes: “Mike Wilson.” The guy asked: “Who?” – “Are you a motorsport journalist?” – “Yes.” “And you don’t know who Mike Wilson is? Seven times go-karting world champion?” – “No.” – “Go back home and study Come back tomorrow so we can continue the interview.” And he was right You weren’t in go-karting when he was racing, right? With Ayrton, yes – You were? – Of course I was a mechanic for Peter de Bruijn, he should have won here in Estoril Oh yes! No, he should have won No, sorry, Domingos You weren’t there, I’m very sorry You can be sorry, but I’ll tell you what happened – No, because I was there – I was there too – No – Which year was it? – 1979 – He’s right And in those days, there were three finals My driver won the first final, he dominated If you won two finals, you were world champion In the second final, my driver was leading again No Ayrton, no Koene, nobody He was leading again, and with a few laps to go, the chain broke You’re right Otherwise, he would have been world champion And Ayrton, very unusually for him, made a mistake He made a calculation mistake, because he let his teammate pass – De Bruijn? – No, he was my driver. Koene He let him pass because he thought they’d be one and two But because of some stupid regulation, it also counted where you were in qualifying, after the heats That’s why Ayrton came second, with the same points He came second, and Koene won the championship And the next year, we won We beat him again, in Nivelles. I’m sorry But the broken chain was a mechanical problem Of course! – You were the mechanic – Yes, he said he was the mechanic I just wanted to make sure I was Peter’s mechanic in those days, yes – You screwed up – Yes, I broke the chain, because I was so nervous But you know, later, actually when Let me just say why we have these two helmets here This is an important helmet, because it’s Pedro Lamy’s helmet This young guy here Immediately, for Portuguese, you start to give compliments “The young guy…” To me, you said I wasn’t young enough But you’re good, you’re like Port wine Anyway, this one’s from 92, from the German Formula 3 championship Actually, a championship that you also won And he was your team manager then

See? Sometimes you don’t screw up, you do a good job Because the Formula 3 didn’t have a chain So, this is 92 And this one is, probably, the most important in our collection This is Michael Schumacher’s very first Formula 1 helmet He started in Spa, driving the Jordan, and then he went to Benetton, in Monza, the last race was in Australia, and when he came back home, he brought it to me He said: “I haven’t got enough money to say thank you very much, but I’m giving you the helmet.” It was really a big, big thing And the funny thing was that my son, Marc, raced with him in go-karts – Marc? – Yes From 87 to 89 Those were tough times, for anyone to try to get the better of him He was, by far, the best Whether it was on his home track, abroad, in dry or wet conditions, he was the benchmark for everybody So, yeah But do you know that, later, he came to support Pedro Because he won the Formula 3 championship for Willi Weber and then they were looking for a good driver, the year after, to go for the championship I was taking care of Pedro, at the time, and I told Pedro: “Maybe the best for you is to go do the Formula 3 championship in Germany.” At the time, it was very, very competitive Pedro went there, to drive for Willi Weber, and the first guy that helped you in Formula 3 was Michael, right? What did he tell you? That you were going to win the championship? – You had to – I had to Michael won it in 1990, then there was a year when he wasn’t so successful, and then I was Opel Lotus European champion, in 91, and I was jumping to Formula 3 My dream was to go to England, not Germany Sorry to say, but He tells me that now At the time, I wanted to follow Senna, Häkkinen, Barrichello, everybody who won big banners in England, and it was my dream to go there And Domingos decided, very well, to convince me to go to Germany, to Willi Weber It was great, we had Opel’s support and it was a great year Do you still have the win record? You broke that record at the time I don’t know, at the time I won a lot You won everything, more or less The Marlboro Masters and almost Macau, but Don’t talk about Macau But I think what he’s saying is it was actually an image at the time, because you should go to England This was the thinking But actually, the German championship was very tough, because everybody thought, when there was an international race like Monte Carlo or the European championship, the Germans were class B But in fact, they were quicker than the English I did the European championship with Bridgestone at Le Mans, which Michael won with Zanardi, but the Continentals were much quicker The same in the Marlboro Masters, later on And also, you were very fast in Silverstone in the European But people imagined you had to go to England But actually, Germany was very strong, the championship But did you hear that he talked about Macau? – I’m happy to – Why are you looking at me? – I’m happy to speak about Macau – Me too – I had good results in Macau – But he had difficulties You were the one who screwed up in Macau, right? – Not alone, but – No I think it was the team manager’s fault He’s a nice guy, isn’t he? A very nice guy – Do you remember that you were on pole? – I was on pole

And next to you, another one of our guys – Klaus Ludwig – He was second We also had Ellen Lohr, right? – And the Portuguese guy, Ni Amorim – Exactly And we were on Bridgestones, the best tyres in the world Thank you! – That was at the time, not today – At the time I was sitting in the pit wall saying to myself: “We were here 600 years ago, when we conquered it, now we’re coming back and we’re going to conquer Macau again.” It was one of those races where, before it starts, I was sure that we were going to make it It was easy, this guy driving, Klaus Ludwig driving, Bridgestone tyres And then what happened? A little bit of ballast for the Nissan That was politics – These guys have to drive, and we – Of course It’s a compliment, well done They forgot the rolling start It was too much confidence, it’s never in the pocket before you see the chequered flag He was new to the business You have to forgive him After qualifying, we were really happy but we didn’t know that the start would be a disaster for us with the first long gear The BMW was used for standing starts and we had rolling starts in the DTM We had to survive the first two corners and we were sure we wouldn’t lead You did survive the first one You missed the braking, but you survived I got the braking, but I missed the first corner We were fast enough to do it, but Klaus was taken out by Pirro – That’s not what people say From Klaus’ side Lets put it that way Macau, sometimes, gets very narrow, then a little bit wider And on the narrow part, they both wanted to go at the same time where there is only – Space for one But then, Bernd was there so I said it wasn’t a problem, “Bernd’s going to make it.” I closed the gap, because I was 15 seconds behind after missing the first corner and I caught up with them But Macau is a place, not like every world circuit, where it’s very easy to make a mistake You didn’t make a mistake, it was the wall that moved, right? Yeah, I didn’t see it like that It was my mistake And I crashed the car – I was my only crash in all the years – It was a good one It was a heavy one I saved on the freight back home That was good, it wasn’t all damage We didn’t bring the car back, so we saved money But there was still Ellen Lohr How did it balance with the prize money? What prize money? You didn’t win any prize money, but maybe the prize money was less than the freight, so he did a good job He always did a good job Specially in Macau, he did a really good job But I was sure we were going to win the race, because this guy won the race on Saturday, in Formula 3 Everything was going according to plan There were no moving walls on Saturday – Not in Formula 3, they were a bit – Wider – For the two saloon cars – But then I said: “The girl is going to save us.” Ellen But then, Ellen didn’t come by “Where’s Ellen?” She came walking “Ellen, what happened?” “I just did what the two big boys did, I put it on the wall.” We had three on the wall So I said: “Okay, now Ni Ni Amorim, don’t crash the bloody…” He was okay, he came in third That was good Bernd, Bernd, sometimes things happen My question is what did the big boss say about this? Oh, Jesus! Let me tell you, there’s a seven-hour difference between Macau and Germany I was by myself in Macau, the big boss was Did we have mobile phones in those days? We had mobile phones, yes Did you need mobile phones? No, the way they were shouting in Germany, I could hear them down in Macau I called Norbert Haug first It was maybe 8 o’clock in the morning in Germany

“Hi, Norbert.” – “What happened?” – “Well, actually…” “We had two… Actually, not two We crashed three times.” “How did we finish?” “Well, we finished third.” – “Who did?” – “Ni Amorim.” “And the other three?” “They’re still sitting in the pits “It’s not a problem, everything’s under control But the way, can you call Aufrecht?” Aufrecht, the “A” in AMG, the big boss “Can you call the big boss and tell him…” “What? Do you think I’m going to call him to give him these news? You bloody call him yourself!” So I took Bernd Schneider next to me, just in case, I called Aufrecht and said: “Hi, boss.” – “Good morning.” – “Good morning.” “I have good and bad news The good news is we saved a lot of money in freight.” He didn’t get it, it was too early in the morning “The second news is all of our guys crashed.” And then he started shouting like you couldn’t believe I held the phone three meters away and you could still hear “Okay, okay But Pedro won the race yesterday.” But it was nice Bernd was a great guy to me Was really good – Me? – Yeah, sure You stood next to me I always wondered where the voice came from, overseas or the phone – It was from overseas But this was the same race where you advised him not to fight with me – Yeah There would have been one less Dutch guy in the world You know, Pedro I don’t know, how many years did we work together at AMG? 10, 12? Something like that The only guys that were always fighting were Kees and myself But we were always okay – We exchanged opinions – Yesterday, you even said: “Kees and Domingos together? Here?” I asked: “Why are you surprised?” “They used to have The last time I was with the two of them…” No, he saved my job at least two times He was the only one who had confidence in my choices, even here at Estoril I remember Mr. Aufrecht coming to me at one o’clock In the morning? No. I had to listen first for maybe ten minutes, and finally, I said: “Can I say something? “Mr. Aufrecht, you’re absolutely right “If our competitor is as quick as they were in warm-up, “we’ll be last and second to last But I think they won’t be that quick, because our tyre will last longer.” And he said to me: “You’re the only one, and maybe the Portuguese, who believe in Bridgestone.” But fortunately, at four o’clock, he was wearing a Bridgestone cap and dancing in the pit lane And then we got him December 1990, we tested here in Estoril for the first time – It was a good one – The fish was fantastic We were so lost But actually, it was really, really good But the best There are nice stories about the Japanese, the Japanese are nice guys – Absolutely We had the first race in Nürburgring The second race of the championship The second year I know what he’s going to tell About our fantastic wet tyres – No, more than fantastic – Yes, more than fantastic It was really good, you know? When we finished qualifying there were 32 cars on the grid, remember? You were there too 32 cars We were 32nd, 31st, 30th and 29th Good But from 29th to 28th, two seconds From 29th to pole, eight seconds Something like that I said: “Oh, Jesus!” At the time, we had Keke Rosberg, Nico’s father, driving with Ellen Lohr And Keke’s known for his dry sense of humour

So, I said: “Keke, say something about the tyres.” “I don’t need tyres Just give me the wheels, I’m quicker on the rims.” Finally, we had a big argument with Mr. Aufrecht, in the AMG bus Frankly speaking, I think it was a one-way conversation In the bus It was more of an announcement I still believe that, without Domingos, the partnership would have been broken there You can’t imagine But anyway, it was one-way I remember very well there were Aufrecht, Haug, Domingos, more people, and there was Yazukawa, Hamashima and me Hamashima is like what? The Adrian Newey of tyres, right? I don’t agree, but he’s famous – But I don’t agree – He’s not as good Otherwise, he’d still be with Ferrari, but I’ll say no more – But he was good at the time – He was the technical manager – And the bus was like this, shaking – You don’t have to tell me, I was sitting in the hospitality tent on that day I saw people go in already with their heads down, keeping notes and preparing for everything To be perfectly honest, when was this? 92? – Yes – I was 22 at the time. I didn’t I think that Horn, the South African guy, was in a better position than we were Absolutely. And I wasn’t aware of the gravity of the situation Of what was going on Everybody’s walking into the bus, their heads, down, scared, with the documents, and next thing you know, the door closes – The bus started to move – With a little delay, the whole thing was incredible Everybody in the tent Nobody was talking, we didn’t know what to do Specially because there was no answer on our side Aufrecht became even louder, all the time And the Japanese didn’t say anything Fortunately, Domingos spoke a little bit on our behalf, and all of a sudden, Yazukawa said to me: “Kees, say something!” So I said something, and I appreciated very much what Aufrecht said at the time: “You poor guy, because your boss should speak and he didn’t.” That calmed it down, and we finally came to an agreement, that in the wet, two cars would be on Michelin and two cars on Pirelli, and as soon as the track was in conditions to use intermediates or slicks, they would change And fortunately, it dried out in the race But you have to say that the week after, we sent two cars to Rome Bernd and Klaus were there and tested for one week It was very good, because frankly speaking, in 91, we escaped, because we knew we had a problem with the wet tyres, but it never rained during an official event And then, Nürburgring was a disaster But we learned a lot We had a really massive wet tyre test and development program and I think we could be proud, because afterwards, first it was Diepholz, a wet race, and everybody was laughing “It’s time for AMG to be beaten.” But we disappeared And the best round was after, in the Nürburgring, where we beat even the four-wheel-drive Alfa in the wet That was in 92. But in 93, it was the year that Bridgestone, internally, decided to enter Formula 1 On the same weekend, we had the race at the Nürburgring and the Imola Formula 1 Grand Prix All the top guys from Bridgestone came to Imola It wasn’t Watanabe, it was the one before – I think it was Kaizaki – Kaizaki, he was the big CEO Fifth floor, Bridgestone headquarters, his own elevator… Really God-like

Everybody was there The president, vice-president, the general manager, racing manager, and Kees was at the Nürburgring for the DTM race I was in Formula 1 there, in Imola, and I see the Bridgestone delegation coming I have to say one thing, sorry to interrupt Of course the two senior Japanese weren’t at the Nürburgring, because they were afraid of the Nürburgring “Maybe the Germans will cut our heads off!” So they came and said: “Domingos, how is everything?” “Everything’s going well, sir.” “And at the Nürburgring?” “We couldn’t race or test, because we have no snow tyres.” “Snow tyres. Snow tyres.” “Very sorry!” Said Kaizaki Then, they got on the phone and called Kees “What’s happening?” “Sorry, everything is going well.” “Why didn’t you bring the snow tyres?” “Because we bloody don’t have any in the program!” It was crazy But it was so nice, we had such nice times! But then, we had When you go back to Michael, he was racing with Marc in go-karts and we helped him a little bit And then, in 91, he raced in the DTM, right? – 91 or 90? – Michael? 91 The season was 91 In 91, he did the DTM, I replaced him and he went to Formula 1 91? You arranged something in the final race in Hockenheim It was a good organization Do you remember? Do you remember what happened? The guy wasn’t quick, he had a problem in qualifying and he started 15th But he was the quickest in the warm-up on Sunday In the final race? Yes, in 1990 He was racing F3 on that weekend as well, wasn’t he? No, only in the DTM – He was racing with Sauber? – Yes – And a couple of F3000 races in Japan – In Formula Nippon Yes, with the Ralt in Sugo – Sugo? – Yes, one race Which Hiroshi arranged, he was a nice guy So, he started 15th Do you remember, at the time, we had the drivers’ briefing before the race? We were all together, drivers, team managers and so on, and there was a big fight for the lead We couldn’t win the championship anymore, it would be either Audi or BMW It would be Stuck or Johnny Cecotto Johnny came in and said Johnny drove for us, for Mercedes, before Johnny came in and said I said: “Johnny, calm down “We brought Michael Schumacher to shoot you up Don’t get excited, everything’s arranged.” Nice, Portuguese – But I said that – Sure The guy was 15th Rolling start Do you remember that one? – Rolling start – I have it in my head And Michael is 15th, he was almost in Frankfurt instead of Hockenheim They start First corner I see cars going left and right, lots of dust, and I wait The dust comes down, I look, and who’s there? Cecotto and Schumacher The championship was finished The next step was Do you remember little Franz? From Schnitzer? The chief mechanic? The old guy? He came with a big hammer “Where’s the Black September?” That was me. He wanted to kill me And Cecotto, still today when I see him, he says: “You screwed my championship!” I tell him: “Johnny, believe me, “you could have tried ten thousand times

to T-bone you from 15th place when you were on pole.” Never! Right? But still But it looked strange, because he came from the inside, over the grass, Michael, and just T-boned him With your speech before, I mean… come on! This is why I never say something like that, because if it happens, you’re in trouble But Franz wanted to kill me That was a good one And everybody was laughing, but I said: “No, no, no!” To this day, Johnny’s convinced Domingos did that on purpose But you did Pedro has a good thing I said In 94 In 93, he did F3000 Almost won the bloody race I didn’t want to win, so I threw it away It was the only championship you just missed, at that time You came second – How far behind Panis? – One point – In which championship? – Formula 3000 They fought until the very last race Actually, Pedro was ahead of Olivier Panis, in that race, and for a moment, he was the champion It was in Nogaro, the last race, right? We went there And then, something happened It doesn’t matter So, 93 In 93, he raced already in Monza – My first Grand Prix – Zanardi had had a big accident And Ayrton was pushing for Pedro to get into Lotus In Zanardi’s place We arranged everything, and he came He raced in 93, and in 94, he stayed with Lotus I remember sitting in my office at AMG, in Affalterbach, and his father called It was after the death of Ayrton, it must have been When was it? Silverstone – My accident was on May 24th – May. Three weeks later – Very close – Yes. His father called me and said – “Domingos…” – “What happened?” – “A big accident.” – “What happened?” “Pedro crashed in Silverstone.” – “Okay.” – “It’s not okay.” “What happened?” “The wing broke and he went off into the tunnel He got out of the tunnel on the other side, but only him.” The monocoque – The pedestrian tunnel, not the – Can you imagine? Those cars weren’t very safe or strong I remember also Donnelly in Monza That was a few years before – It was just him in his seat – I was there But it was a big, big one Really big one He stayed in Northampton, at the hospital, for I don’t know how long, and then For two weeks, and then I went to Bad Wiessee – You went to Austria – Bad Wiessee, in Germany – Germany, but close – With Austrians For your recovery, because they were good So after he could talk and walk, I said we had to give him a go I said: “We’re going to give him a go with the Mercedes.” – Do you remember that? – Yes The DTM? We put a DTM car in Hockenheim, we put Pedro inside and I said: “When he starts up the engine, if he doesn’t bloody jump out of the car and runs, we’ve got him back.” He was strapped in and everything I could see his eyes His eyes, under the helmet, are like Emerson Fittipaldi and Ayrton’s, they suddenly become two sizes bigger – And then he started, everything – Was this in 94? 94, in October, or something September, October? But we went to the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Hockenheim, you and I It was your first appearance at the race again, after the accident He had both legs in casts, padded like this, on crutches

We were wondering where could we stay with him I said: “I have an idea The best place for you to chill The Zak’s House.” Right? What he didn’t know was that that’s where they had all the grid girls, they were based there So we come Marc took the crutches That’s why he knew it was the best place All the girls in there, and then him “Poor you, what have you done?” “He’s a Formula 1 driver It was a terrible accident, look at him.” “My God, can we do something for you?” He was sitting in the lounge with his legs up “He can’t move Sorry girls, he has to sit there.” “No problem!” We don’t want to know what happened next No, wait So, the girls get ready to get to the grid The Formula 1 grid, right? The house was empty, no more fun for us neither, so we thought it was time to also go We go to the grid, and we had passes to access the grid and there’s a Portuguese journalist who didn’t have access. He said: “Guys, can you do me a favour? “Can you take my camera and just take photos? Finish the film, it’s a fresh film.” 36 photos, old-school still After every photo, you know? We went: “Yeah, leave it to us.” What do you think? It was only grid girls we photographed He wanted photos of the cars And the thing was he couldn’t check it! When it was through, we gave him the camera “I’m going to send this right away to the newspaper in Lisbon, thank you so much!” And we were going But the photos were nice, I’m sure I never saw a single one But the girls all recognized him, they were very forthcoming taking photos with him, it was fantastic And was he taking their cell phone numbers? Were there cell phones? It was the very beginning We were sponsored by Ericsson D2 Mannesmann! 1994, yes It was just the start, in 91 or 92 The funny thing is that Pedro, after he had the accident in Formula 1, he did this test in the Nürburgring with Mercedes Later, he raced with you in Le Mans, in 1999 What was the flight number? What happened, Pedro? Tell us a little bit of He has no idea because he didn’t fly – I didn’t know how that thing worked – Come on He had the heavier tyres in the front The rear tyres were in the front, that’s the reason But the other thing is that When Mercedes does things, they do it in style So, we had two practice flights before The first was on Thursday, when Mark Webber checked the car, because I was going to go for qualifying again, we were only 5th of 6th, we weren’t very fast We were struggling with the engines in the beginning of testing and we had to downsize the horsepower and we took off aerodynamics to get the speed, and this was the critical moment But we also had tested that at Hockenheim and we were pretty sure that our car was safe, because the cars before, in 97 and 98, they were even more sensitive But with those cars, we never raced at Le Mans We only did two hours in 98 before the engine broke, and nothing happened there But in 99, we did know the problems of this kind of cars, but we were 100% sure it wouldn’t happen, specially with this 99 car, because we simulated a lot and we never had any problem We tested in Fontana for hours 30 hours, we did in Fontana But Fontana is a bit different, because there’s the banking and there’s no kerbs, no bumps, nothing to – To help fly – To take-off And also, another issue was the slipstreaming We only had three cars at Fontana and we never had big slipstreaming The problem starts at over 300 kph and in Fontana, we only hit 300 kph coming out of the banking to the chicane, do you remember the chicane? I was pretty sure that we wouldn’t have these problems, until Mark Webber, for the first time on Thursday, flew And he was a bit scared

He was really scared And actually, afterwards, he recognized this was probably the worst accident of our three flights And that’s the one that was never caught on camera because the cameras weren’t set up yet on Thursday We didn’t really notice it was a very serious problem – It was in the dark, right? – No, it was during the day He was behind an Audi, he followed him, and Frank Biela told me that In those days, we were much faster He was going to let him by, he watched the mirrors and the car was gone “Where’s the car?” He was really scared that he had pushed him off The next lap, he passed and the car was stopped He thought it might have been a technical problem, because it didn’t look like such a heavy accident He did a full loop and landed like this, on the wheels, and he was parked Even I passed by and – Australian work – Yeah Mark told me after that when he took off and watched down, he could see the trees from the top And those trees are very, very high He must have been very high in the air This was which part of the track? It was exactly the same part where Peter flew – On the way to Indianapolis – Exactly. The right He was exactly behind Frank Biela on full tanks, and that’s the worst thing in this kind of cars, because on full tanks, the rear goes down even more, the front up, and if you have good slipstreaming, this could happen That was the first time The second one? Warm-up. Mark Webber again They rebuilt the car, we had another car, and he just had to do a check lap He followed the Viper and flew But that’s Mulsanne now, right? The second flight? But of the first flying exercise, there’s no evidence, no pictures, no film, nothing At Bridgestone, we had three teams: Mercedes, Courage and Nissan I was in charge of everything And in the morning on Saturday, in the warm-up, you go and say hello to the teams During warm-up, they rebuilt the car I arrived at the Mercedes garage, opened the door, and everybody’s watching the screen I come in, and I have a different sense of humour So I said: “They found pictures of Mark’s accident.” They looked at me “You idiot! This is live!” It was the second flight – And then, we had the third one – But before that, we had a meeting – How was the meeting, Pedro? – The meeting was great Everybody was scared, I was scared Because after the first flight, Mark Webber flew but we didn’t know what had happened I wasn’t aware, I think I didn’t want to look into it And then, on the second flight, we had the meeting and we had to decide if we would participate or not – The drivers? – The drivers The meeting was with Norbert Who was in the meeting? Professor Hubbert, Aufrecht, Gerhard, Mattheis I was there, and Norbert – Aufrecht – Aufrecht And we were in contact with Canada Yes, because of Formula 1 And Norbert and Hubbert said: “Just call Adrian Newey.” At the time, he was at McLaren “Ask him what we should do.” I said: “Norbert, shit! “Adrian Newey doesn’t even know where bloody Le Mans is! Why would you ask him what to do?” This was three hours before the start – And then? – He asked everybody if we wanted to race Who was the first one to answer? We had a boss there, it was Bernd He was the leader And he said He had to give his position – I don’t know what he had inside, but – We had Of course we discussed the situation and what had happened The worst thing was if we had another accident like this and somebody got hurt or even worse, got killed, in Mercedes history, the whole motorsport program could stop This was only the second time you were back at Le Mans after the 1955 accident – Exactly – 98 and then 99 – It was a big responsibility for us On the one hand, we put a lot of effort into this project a lot of money too, and then, to make the decision to start or not Of course, if Peter Dumbreck, when he flew into the forest

if he had killed a marshal, even one or two, it doesn’t matter, I don’t think there would be a Mercedes world champion in Formula 1 It would have stopped everything immediately It was a big decision, we weren’t just thinking about losing We could lose everything that took a long time to build up It wasn’t an easy decision We knew that, if it happened again, it could have a big effect on the program And finally, we talked with Gerhard and he said if we put the rain downforce on the car it would make the front safer, because downforce from the top of the car is safer than from the bottom, because if the car goes up, it helps you survive, it would keep the car down We were pretty sure that if we put everything on, we were on the safe side Actually, we were on the safe side And he flew because he made a small mistake Because at the time, if you remember, we said: “Don’t do any slipstreaming and don’t touch the kerbs.” And then, Peter Dumbreck Yeah, but it’s always easy to say and harder to manage everything Peter, when he followed the Toyota, was battling for third place, I think He always went off the slipstreams and this was to avoid touching the inside kerbs, because you don’t want to be 100% He moved a half car to the right and that was why he touched the inside kerb We found this out a couple of weeks later, because BMW had a team there to film everything and they gave us the pictures, otherwise we wouldn’t have known that he touched the inside kerb It wasn’t a big thing, just Another funny thing was that year, all the manufacturers flew These kinds of cars were just built Porsche flew in Road Atlanta, BMW flew, everybody flew But do you know what happened afterwards with Peter Dumbreck? He flew. And then, suddenly We saw many replays, because we were trying to find out what happened exactly and I remember it took terribly long until we heard He was on the radio He was on the radio, because I had just got out of the car and you went into the car, Peter was after me When I was in the container to change, I heard over the speakers the safety car was out, in French, I couldn’t understand what was going on, but I knew the safety car was out Then Franck Lagorce, our teammate, came in and said: “He flew into the forest!” “Who the fuck flew into the forest?” He said: “Peter flew into the forest! It was a big one!” But he was on the radio No, but Franck Lagorce was in the car I’d just jumped out, I think he was talking on the radio Peter was on the radio No, Franck was on the radio He was in the car, I wasn’t – He was in the car – No, it was Franck Franck was on the radio and said: “He’s flying!” I said: “Who’s flying?” I thought he was flying “This guy’s crazy, he’s flying and he’s still talking.” But he was on the ground, he was saying the other guy was flying Five minutes later, I hear: “Team manager car number…” Whatever it was, was it five? “Team manager car number five to Race Control.” I said: “Oh, shit!” I went to Race Control, and the guy tells me: “You have to pick up your driver.” “Where is he?” “At the police station.” “Police station? Don’t you mean the medical center?” “No, the police station.” – “Why?” – “To have an alcohol test.” “He’s a racing driver, he can’t be drunk!” “No, you have to go.” I thought: “These bloody French…” I ran down, jumped in the car, in the Mercedes we had there, and I went around to the police station, which was at the end of the Mulsanne straight I’m driving, I enter the paddock, I drive out of the paddock and I see a French guy in front of me, looking at me, I had on a Mercedes-AMG shirt like yours, and I see the French guy doing I opened the door, jumped out, kicked him,

got back in the car and drove away I had to get some of the adrenaline out I arrived at the police station, and I see Peter… white! He wasn’t dark anyway, but he was bloody white Maybe even metallic white So, I said: “Peter, what happened?” He’s Scottish, when they get excited, they have a Scottish accent like Alex Ferguson, nobody understands when he talks “… alcohol test!” “Why are you testing him for alcohol?” “Monsieur, “le pilote a eu un accident sur la route nationale 10.” Because the straight is the national highway 10 It’s written that he had to He was like a -2 So, I brought Peter back he went to the medical center, then to the hospitality tent, and I remember when he arrived, everybody was clapping hands Then, he asked: “Can I have some spaghetti?” And I said: “He’s okay Bloody hell, he’s back to life.” But when he flew, when he took off, he missed a concrete post, the electricity posts the French have, maybe by one or two meters If he had hit it, it would have been over – He missed the advertisement bridge – Bridgestone! Marc was the guy that put the bloody bridge there! Then he flew into the forest where they had just cut off the trees, he landed and a tree stump came into the monocoque, on the passenger’s side It was more than luck – He had everything planned – Everything was planned – It was really on the edge – Jesus – To survive such a big accident – Now he can laugh about it, but it could have been a completely different story Yes, specially when I flew back on the night of Saturday to Sunday I flew back with Professor Hubbert, the big boss of the Mercedes car group It was Hubbert, Peter, myself and someone else I can’t remember We flew back to Stuttgart and we stopped in Paris to let Peter out to catch a flight to Edinburgh or Glasgow And he didn’t talk the whole flight Peter couldn’t talk. He ran out of words when he was flying, he never talked And Hubbert tried to Then, on the way from Paris to Stuttgart, I told Professor Hubbert: “We were lucky.” “Yes, very lucky.” He just kept saying “very lucky” I said yes, we were very lucky. Enough It was unbelievable – Imagine – You got a bonus for the advertising While I’m listening, I’m thinking whether I actually asked for a bonus, because that clip Nowadays, you’d say it went viral Had there been social media and all the communication channels there are today available back in the day, you would have had millions of views But of course, the bridge features prominently, because the angle of the shot was absolutely perfect – That’s why it’s called Bridgestone – Is that the Bridge Stone? I remember I was in the pits, and I see the bloody thing flying, missing the bridge, missing the post You couldn’t see the post But missing the bridge and I said: “Oh, shit! Where’s it going to land?” And Marc said: “No worries, they cut all the trees.” So I knew he couldn’t land on one of the big trees But I was worried He landed in… You know – The tree was cut like this – His time hadn’t come, as they say It wasn’t his time That was a big one That was really a big one Then we got back, in 99, and The thing was, in 96, we decided to Actually, 96 reminds me of a nice

Racing the Polo? – No – I remember that! That’s the one that he won – That was a good story – But before that – In 96, Aida – The ITC? ITC You didn’t race No, he had this wonderful test in 95, right? With us in Nogaro Was it 95, when you tested to become our driver in 96? On JJ’s car. The black Calibra And as learned from the best, everything was prepared You needn’t do the test, we had everything sorted “Pedro, he’s the man.” They still remembered him from Formula 3 But in any case, he came to test He took the car out, the mechanics made sure it was going to be really fast And then, you produced the worst engine blow-up of Opel’s history in the DTM and ITC Do you remember the hole you put in the engine, on downshift after the long straight? Over. And everyone was like: “What the hell?” And that was that You never came to race for us because the sports chief at the time was terribly upset about this Terribly upset – In 96? – This was 95 But the year after, we had the 96 ITC, where we raced here in Portugal and won, thanks to – Thank you – Thanks to Bridgestone – Did you also race here in 95? – Yes, 95 and 96 But when was the two red flags, the two restarts with the big crash in turn 2? It was 96 In 95, I won here In 96, do you know who was responsible for the red flag? Ludwig and Franchitti Franchitti tried to overtake him on the outside On turn 2? “Nobody overtakes me on the outside!” “Nobody overtakes me on the outside!” It was a big crash

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